|
PARADOX
Subject: Newsletter
21
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002
From: "Moo-ree"
David,
I have to wonder if religious people are targets of suspicion for
the very reason they are respected: conviction. One?s convictions,
based on beliefs about God, man, sin, redemption are core to how
we live. Even if one is NOT religious, he or she has beliefs about
these core issues, even if they are counter to Biblical thought.
Religious convictions set up this paradox in that faith based on
evidence- note EVIDENCE and NOT proof?which for many seems fuzzy
and ethereal as opposed to being concrete and measurable. If I live
my life by the conviction that I am a sinner in need of grace, then
I will more than likely conduct myself with humility and tell others
of that grace that saves and restores me. My neighbor, who may possess
the opposite conviction (?I don?t? need God I?m my own person. I
don?t even think He exists?!)sees me as strange and foreign. I become
a target of suspicion because my motives are ?too good to be true?
or completely incredible. Bridging the gap takes time, sincerity,
genuineness in relationship and prayer.
In The Pledge, Jerry didn?t have TIME to
see if the fruit of the pastor?s life was good and real. He had
a murderer to apprehend before someone else was killed. Even as
a Biblical Christian, I?ve become increasingly suspect of much of
evangelical Christianity for the reasons I mentioned above. There
is precious little honesty and authenticity among those who claim
to be believers. The fruit is all too frequently bad or lacking
and we won?t admit to our brothers and sisters that we are in desperate
need of God?s grace even though we are already saved. Sean Penn?s
suspicion is a product of who we are a society and of our personal
tendency to distance ourselves from a sovereign Creator who so dearly
loves us. As I get older, I realize all the more that the good we
do is by His grace and not of ourselves. We need to extend that
grace to others as we see failings and weakness, believer and unbeliever
alike. That conviction may get us into worldly trouble (by not being
suspicious enough or looking na?ve) but that?s where faith comes
in. Just some ideas,
Marie from Ohio
Response:
Thanks -David
DOING
GOOD IN A CRUEL WORLD
Subject: The_Pledge
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001
From: Jakob
Hi, today I went to the cinema in Copenhagen to watch this movie.
Having read the comments here I was expecting a more frightening
movie than the one I saw on the screen. I saw Nicholsons character
not as an obsessed person but as a very nice person with a big heart.
I
was more horrified by the thought of the pledge that he gave and
the way he was pressured into it. I think he gave it out of his
good heart, but was later haunted by it. In this way I think the
movie shows how hard it can be to do good things in a cruel world.
If you help some people, maybe somebody else will get hurt or you
will put your (in this case newfound) relations at stake.
Well
I just think that the pledge he is making is a bit too much. It's
as if he has to bear the anger of the mother by making this pledge.
Response:
Good points. -David
THE
ANGEL STORY
Subject: The_Pledge
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001
From: "MG
The
story is "The Angel" by Hans Christian Andersen, and can be found
at http://hca.gilead.org.il/xref.html.
Reading it we find more clues to the film, including hints about
the beginning and end. "The Angel" tells not only of children who
die but of a "poor field-flower, that once lay withered and cast
away on a heap of rubbish in a narrow, dark street." The film opens
with Nicholson walking in a dry desert, like a "poor field-flower
withered and cast away on a heap of rubbish." His lips move and
one might think he is praying. I thought of Moses in the wilderness.
Hovering overhead are birds (doves?) representing angels and the
lost children. As the film unfolds we see Nicholson entering a different
culture, "in but not of" that world. He buys the gas station to
fully enter that culture to bring salvation by waiting for the killer.
He has made a promise by his "soul's salvation" to find the killer.
When he is denied ("vengeance is mine, says the Lord ") he cannot
keep his promise. Nicholson, like Moses, doesn't get to see the
"land of promise " and, we presume, dies in the desert, having come
very close to succeeding. If we apply the ending of the Anderson
story to the film, we might feel better: "Then the Almighty pressed
all the flowers to His heart; but He kissed the withered field-flower,
and it received a voice. Then it joined in the song of the angels,
who surrounded the throne, some near, and others in a distant circle,
but all equally happy."
WHAT
IS THE NAME OF THE BOOK?
Subject: Quote The Pledge
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001
From: Denyse McGrath
I
rented the movie The Pledge and when J Nicholson is interviewing
the dead girl's grandmother she talks of a book by ? Anderson? in
wich she reads a quote about angels and children and the way thaey
are taken to Heaven. Does anyone know what the name of this book
is or where I can find that qote with all the context surronding
it?
Thank You Denyse McGrath
A
GREAT FILM
Subject: review
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001
From: Stephen
My wife and I saw "The Pledge" last evening. It was an entertaining
movie. It was much better than the normal hollywood bushwah with
blazing guns and mindless sex. The way that director Penn showed
the victim, in quick, almost single frame, was tasteful and just
as shocking. I knew the bad guy was going to get it in the end,
but I thought that Jack Nicholson would do the getting in a blood
bath. The ending was a surprise. The bad guy was punished by the
fires of Hell and so was the detective, punished by his obsessiveness.
I felt sorry for the detctive who promised his soul's salvation
to find the murderer. His torment at the end was punishment for
a broken vow. A great movie
INTENSE
Subject: interesting movie
Date:
Wed, 31 Jan 2001
From: Marla
I agree with the intensity of the movie. Every image is focussed,
so one thinks that there is an important clue hidden in it. That
started to bother me quickly, as I could never see a big picture,
but only what they chose to let me see. It is a movie I think I
would prefer on video, so I can study things for myself. BUT I think
people should be warned that it has no clean ending, no clear solution,
which makes it very uncomfortable to see.
Marla
*******************
DISCUSSION
FROM NEWSLETTER 21
 The
Pledge is one of Jack Nicholson's best. It is an incredible film
with a totally unexpected ending. It also underscores a very curious
paradox about our cultural feelings regarding religion.
At
the beginning of the film the crucifix is presented as a symbol
of a sacred promise. Toward the end of the film the cross becomes
a symbol of betrayal. Two very contrary ideas.
The
film seems to reflect the conflicting ideas about religion in our
culture. For Example:
Some
considered John Ashcroft's Christian faith potentially dangerous.
And yet, Clinton was praised for seeking out Christian ministers
to counsel him after his famous scandal.
Gore,
Bush and Lieberman showcased their religious faiths while campaigning
to win the White House. They considered faith a very important part
of their campaigns. And yet, President G. W. Bush is criticized
for his desire to invite faith-based groups to apply for federal
funding for Community services.
We
respect people of faith.
And yet we are suspicious of people of faith.
Why the paradox?
Why do you think such conflicting ideas exist?
Email
me your response to:
Newsletter_21_E-mail
I will post your comments here and at: http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/newsletter021.htm
WHY
THE CONFLICT?
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001
From: Darrel Manson
I
think Chocolat is a good place to look. I didn't read the book,
but I understand the movie toned down the church's part. In the
movie the church is merely wussy. In the book, the antagonist is
priest rather than mayor.
We
want people in public life to be religious, because we hope that
some sort of relationship with God will move those people to strive
to act out being in God's image - hence loving, caring and self-giving.
But we also understand how easily it is for the religious to become
like the Comte in Chocolat, trying to prove themselves worthy of
their position by enforcing their view of religion.
On
the other hand, I sometimes question whether we would really want
someone to truly live out their Christianity as President. Certainly
it was hard for many to stomach Jimmy Carter who tried to do so
in many ways. What would we do if a president turned the other cheek,
if the president took to heart the woes pronounced against the rich
and the full in the Sermon on the Plain in Luke 6? Face it, we want
even the religious leaders to be selective in when they apply their
religion to public policy. I guess in the end, we want them to be
religious, but just not really believe it.
-- Darrel Manson
><>Artesia Christian Church
Artesia, CA http://netministries.org/see/churches/ch01198
FUNDING
FOR FAITH GROUPS
Subject: Funding for Faith groups
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001
From: Margaret Forbes
Our
founding fathers were wise in insisting on separation of church
and state. Eighteenth century France was basically ruled by the
Nobles and the Church. The nobles were not the only group that got
a short haircut, bishops and archbishops did as well. Why? Because
the abused their power and used the fear of God to get their way.
Today we only have to look to the middle east to see what a theocracy
can do to civil law. As Christians we also tend to think of groups
of faith as Christian groups. Not so. Our tax money could also go
to any group that is a recognized faith. That includes Muslims,
Buddists, New Age, Bah'ai and Krishna's just to name the most well
known. We tend to think of our country as a "Christian" country,
and it's not. Our government protects our right to worship as we
please and WHOM we please. There are already some of my tax dollars
going to things I don't believe in. We don't need to add more.
Margaret Forbes NRSMAGGIE@YAHOO.COM
FAITH
PARADOX
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: "Karen Igla"
In WORLD magazine (January 27, 2001), Cal Thomas wrote an excellent
article addressing the question of why some praise the invocation
of God by some people and criticize others. Thomas reasoned that
God was not the object of fear. Rather, what is feared and rejected
are those whose faith actually drive their actions and policies.
Anyone can claim to be a Christian -- that is no threat. But one
who lives as a Christian, even as boldly as a lion, can set thousands
to trembling as they shake their fists in rancor. --Karen Igla
IT'S
WITH LIFE
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: Patti
Not just extreme love/hate relationship w/religion--it's w/life!
Oh, what humans we be...know that we love you and include you in
our prayers dear friend.
patti
WHY
THE PARADOX?
Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: Thomas
Dear
Bruce, It is important to remember whom we are dealing with...sinners.
Inherent in each person is the fingerprint of God, so to speak,
because we were made in His image (Gen 1:27).
As
one who accepted the gift of salvation later on in life (37) after
living a basically agnostic life (I could take God or leave Him),
there was always an acute awareness of my own failings. No matter
what I did that was great it was always overshadowed by my failures
and shortcomings. Read the stories of so-called great figures and
they are either motivated or tortured by their failings.
I contend, that because we ALL know we are imperfect, when someone
acts in perfection (i.e. righteousness) we are impressed and awed
by that action. That is the part the world loves and respects about
Christianity - the universal morals and love espoused.
What
is often seen are the visible hypocrisies and limitations by those
who profess this belief, who even have the audacity to proclaim
that there is only one way to achieve this righteousness (through
Christ). This is an affront to the concept that every-idea-is-equal
philosophies of the day (which are not new) and that there is some
unfairness in being held accountable because we are imperfect. There
is no recognition that we cannot be righteous ourselves. There is
no understanding of this without the Holy Spirit.
I
remember taking my son to elementary school one morning and we were
running late (and I hate being late). As we were pulling up to the
school I noticed a fairly long line of cars containing children
who were also late for school that day and I breathed a sigh of
relief - at least I would not be the only one late. Perhaps with
all these people being late, my lateness was excused or understandable
- after all, wasn't just about everyone else late? Therefore it
was not my fault.
Gen
3:12 is the first instance of our "natural" reaction to sin - it
is someone else's fault and, besides, everyone else is doing this.
We hate the person standing outside our sin and NOT doing it because
it makes us look bad, so therefore, we will make them look as bad,
no, worse than we are...at least then we are not hypocrites.
This
is why Christ promised us in Matthew 24:10 - "you will be hated
by all nations because of me". We are loved because of His teachings
on living but hated because of His teachings on salvation. The world
wants to eat the cake and have it too.
Sincerely, Tom Peck
PARADOX
ON RELIGION
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: Jon
People
feel convicted by religion. They don't want to have to be held accountable
for their sinful lifestyles. People will admire people with religious
convictions as long as those convictions aren't "forced" on them.
Pray for these people that their hard hearts would be melted and
accept Christ as their savior from sin. God Bless!
CONFLICT
ON RELIGION
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: Rev. Linda Middelberg
I think that we respect people of faith if they appear to be living
their faith not just talking about it. But we are suspcious of them
because we are afraid that they will try and force us to believe
as they do. As Christians we walk a tight line between witnessing
to our faith and bullying people into thinking like we do. In a
pluralistic society, we have to recognize the moral opinions of
others in the public areana while still standing up for our own
beliefs. It is even complicated more by the fact that all Christians
cannot even agree of issues ranging from welfare reform to abortion.
So someone in a position of public trust and power must be committed
to enforcing the will of the majority while still protecting the
rights of the minority and staying true to one's own religious background.
This can not be an easy task and I guess we doubt that it can truly
be done. I hope that it can and I pray that the current administration
will be able to do so even though I did not orginally support them.
Thanks for you wonderful website. i have used it numerous times
to prepare for Sunday School classes and contemporary worship services.
Yours in Christ, Rev. Linda Middelberg
LOVE-HATE
RELIGION
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: sharon
Being born Italian
and raised Catholic I love the ritual of the Mass, but I don't like
being preached to. I don't like people trying to brain wash me into
their beliefs and I don't trust people who are too religious, I
always feel like they are pulling my leg and trying to see if they
can take me for a ride. Organized religion has used the Bible throughout
history to persecute people, no one way is the only way. If people
were to live by the golden rule or the prayer of St. Francis of
Assis, the world would be a better place and people won't have to
worry about their souls.
WALKING
FINE LINE
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: Gary Stokes
Dear
David, I think the extreme left are afraid of people of real faith.
I know that I am walking a fine line in some readers minds, but
hear me out. The bible says that a person of faith will be known
by their fruit and out of the mouth the heart speaks. If a person
talks faith but does not walk faith that person is not a threat.
But, if a person walks out their faith that person is seen as a
threat because the enemy (satan) does not like a person of true
faith.
Gary Stokes
|
THE
PLEDGE 
Directed
by Sean Penn 
