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HOLLYWOOD
JESUS
NEWSLETTER #34
Pop Culture From A Spiritual Point of View
HJ
News #34 Main Page
March 27, 2002
Greetings from David Bruce, Web Master
This
page was last updated May 14, 2002
___________________________________
Main
Topic:
CHURCH ATTENDANCE
IS IN MAJOR DECLINE!
GOOD NEWS OR BAD?
Sub
Topic
THE MEANING OF PALM SUNDAY
AND FIG TREE MONDAY
Free
Downloads
PDF REPORTS ON SPIRITUALITY TRENDS
WORD DOCUMENT ON WORLD WIDE MISSION
Contents:
1.
FIRST, THE GOOD NEWS -WORLDWIDE REVIVAL!
2. BAD NEWS: US CHURCH ATTENDANCE IS IN MAJOR DECLINE!
3. CURIOUS NEWS: SPIRITUALITY IS INCREASING!
4. THE AGE OF CHURCH-IANITY IS OVER.
SOMETHING NEW IS DAWNING!
5. THE ROCKS CRY OUT -JUST AS JESUS SAID!
6. THE HOLLYWOOD JESUS USA TOUR THIS SUMMER
*************************
1. FIRST, THE GOOD NEWS -WORLDWIDE REVIVAL
*************************
God
says, "Look at the nations and watch--and be utterly amazed. For
I am going to do something in your days that you would not believe,
even if you were told." --Habakkuk 1:5
AMAZING
GROWTH: It took 18 centuries for dedicated believers to
grow from 0 percent of the world's population to 2.5 percent in
1990, only 70 years years to grow from 2.5 to 5 percent in 1970,
and in just the last 30 years to grow from 5 to 11.2 percent of
the world's population. Now for the first time in history, there
is one believer for every nine people worldwide who aren't believers.
(Down load Adobe Acrobat
pdf pie chart, download
Adobe Acrobat pdf line chart)
Dr.
Ralph Winter of the US Center for World Mission reports, "God's
promise to bless all the 'families of the earth,' first given
to Abraham 4,000 years ago, is becoming a reality at a pace 'you
would not believe.' Although some may dispute some of the details,
the overall trend is indisputable. Biblical faith is growing and
spreading to the ends of the earth as never before in history.
"One
of every ten people on the planet is of the Bible- reading, Bible-believing
stream of Christianity. The number of believers in what used to
be "mission fields" now surpasses the number of believers in the
countries from which missionaries were originally sent. In fact,
more missionaries are now sent from non- Western churches than
from the traditional mission- sending bases in the West. The Protestant
growth rate in Latin America is well over three times the
biological growth rate. Protestants in China grew from
about one million to over 80 million believers in less than 50
years, with most of that growth occurring in just the last few
decades. In the 1980s, Nepal was still a staunch Hindu
kingdom with only a small persecuted church. Today there are hundreds
of thousands of believers and churches have been started within
each of the more than 100 distinct people groups."
(DOWN
LOAD THE FULL REPORT HERE
In
Microsoft Word format from the US Center for World Mission)
AND
YET -In the midst of this unprecedented world wide growth
America's church attendance is in major decline.
Read on...
*************************
2. BAD NEWS: CHURCH ATTENDANCE IS IN DECLINE
*************************
Americans
almost all say religion matters, yet more people than ever are
opting out. Not just out of the pews. Out from under a theological
roof altogether.
In
2001, more than 29.4 million Americans said they had no religion
- more than double the number in 1990, and more than Methodists,
Lutherans and Episcopalians all added up - according to the American
Religious Identification Survey 2001 (ARIS).
People
with no religion now account for 14% of the nation, up from 8%
in 1990 when The Graduate Center of the City University of
New York, authors of the ARIS, conducted its first survey of religion
in 1990.
Today
the range stretches from 3% with no religion in North Dakota
to 25% in Washington State. For them, Sundays are just another
Saturday.
(DOWNLOAD
THE FULL 46 PAGE ARIS REPORT HERE
The City University of New York's American Religious Survey -Adobe
Acrobat pdf format)
Os
Guinness at the Lausanne II in Manila stated, "Secularists,
or people with no religious commitment, now form the second largest
bloc in the world, second only to Christianity and catching up
fast..."
YOUR
FEEDBACK:
WHY
IS THE CHURCH IN DECLINE?
The_Church_Is_In_Decline_Because
Your
Comments will be posted below.
AND
YET -In the midst of falling Church attendance we are experiencing
the increasing interest in spirituality.
Read on...
*************************
3. CURIOUS NEWS: SPIRITUALITY IS GROWING!
*************************
A
USA TODAY/Gallup Poll in January 2002 shows a shift away from
religious identity: 50% of Americans call themselves religious,
down from 54% in December 1999. But an additional 33% call themselves
"spiritual but not religious," up from 30%, and about one in 10
say they are neither.
The
majority of Americans, 81% according to ARIS, still do claim
a religion. They represent a counterargument to the theory
that the more developed a country - in education, occupations,
science and technology - the more its people move away from religion,
says Ronald Inglehart, who heads the Institute for Social Research
at the University of Michigan in a USA Today interview.
According to the World Values Survey (http://wvs.isr.umich.edu/index.html),
conducted by sociologists in 65 nations since 1981, "We see
(a religious attitude) when we ask how often people spend time
thinking about the meaning and purpose of life. We see it
in people's attitudes toward the environment and in the growth
of a worldview that sees all life as sacred and invests nature
with dignity and sacred quality," Inglehart says.
"Contrary
to the well-known secularization theory that God is dead and will
soon drop off the consciousness map, the USA is a holdout. Spirituality
is actually growing in the USA."
YOUR
FEEDBACK:
I am interested in your views:
WHY
IS SPIRITUALITY INCREASING?
Spirituality_Is_Increasing_Because
Your
Comments will be posted below.
WHAT
IS GOING ON?
-With growing interest in spirituality isn't it curious that the
church is in decline?
Read
on....
*************************
4. THE AGE OF CHURCH-IANITY IS OVER.
SOMETHING NEW IS DAWNING!
*************************
Could it be that God is doing something new?
Is
God moving beyond the Church?
Is
Church-ianity coming to an end in Western culture? Actually, we
already are living in a post-Christian culture.
There
are two post-modern prophets that foresaw this coming. They saw
the end of Church-ianity as a good thing. They are Søren
Kierkegaard and Dietrick Bonhoeffer.
Søren
Kierkegaard wrote "Attack On Christendom" in which
he celebrated Christendom's decline! He longed for the day when
Christians would simply be "followers of Jesus." He
felt that "being Christian" merely because one was born
in a so-called Christian nation and was even baptized by the church
was not good enough. In fact, he saw this as the end of Christianity.
"When everybody is a Christian, nobody is a Christian."
Such people are only "playing Christianity." Kierkegaard
was no lover of Church-ianity. He was, however, a lover of Jesus.
He believed that in order to be a follower of Jesus, one needs
to take a leap of faith. (His idea of the Leap of Faith was picked
up by two recent films: Vanilla Sky
and Kate and Leopold)
Dietrick Bonhoeffer, was a true prophet of our day. Like
most prophets he was killed for his faith. It was Adolph Hitler
and his murderous Nazis who assassinated Bonhoeffer by hanging.
Bonhoeffer saw the futility of the modern era and how irrelevant
the modern church was. Bonhoeffer welcomed secularization because
it was "a clearing of the decks for the God of the Bible."
He prophesied of a time when a viable form of Christianity would
emerge. "A religionless Christianity." Can you imagine
that? A Christianity free of religion. Wow! He saw a time when
lovers of Jesus would speak without "religious jargon"
and would effectively speak "in a secular fashion about God."
Click
here to watch a RealVideo of Bonhoeffer talking about his prophetic
vision.
YOUR
FEEDBACK:
I am interested in your views:
DO
YOU THINK GOD IS DOING SOMETHING NEW?
I_Agree_God_Is_Doing_Something_New
I_Disagree_God_Isnt_Doing_Something_New
Your
Comments will be posted below.
*************************
5. THE ROCKS CRY OUT -JUST AS JESUS SAID!
*************************
THE
FIRST PALM SUNDAY. In Luke 19:36-40 we read of a prophetic
utterance by Jesus Christ that applies to our day. Jesus was entering
Jerusalem. "As he rode, the people gave him a grand welcome,
throwing their coats on the street. Right at the crest, where
Mount Olives begins its descent, the whole crowd of disciples
burst into enthusiastic praise over all the mighty works they
had witnessed: "Blessed he who comes, the king in God's name!
All's well in heaven! Glory in the high places!" Some Pharisees
from the crowd told him, "Teacher, get your disciples under control!"
But he said, "If they kept quiet, the stones would do it for
them, shouting praise."
(-Message Translation)
As
the Church has become less connected to the culture and its public
proclamation largely silent, could it be that the stones are now
crying out?
THE
DAY AFTER PALM SUNDAY JESUS CURSED THE FIG TREE. The fruitless
fig tree was a symbol of the fruitless religious system of that
day. Mark 11:12-14 contains this remarkable story: "As they
left Bethany the next day, Jesus was hungry. Off in the distance
he saw a fig tree in full leaf. He came up to it expecting to
find something for breakfast, but found nothing but fig leaves.
(It wasn't yet the season for figs.) He addressed the tree: "No
one is going to eat fruit from you again—ever!" And his disciples
overheard him." (-Message Translation)
What
would Jesus say about Church-ianity today? Perhaps he would say,
"No one is going to eat fruit from you again—ever!"
Perhaps
he would also say, "Because they are culturally quiet, the stones
will cry out."
When
the Apostle Paul wanted to tell the "very spiritual people"
of Athens about Jesus he did not use the language or methods of
the formal religious system of his day. Instead he used the stone
gods that they worshipped. He allowed the stones to cry out. "So
Paul, standing before the Council, addressed them as follows:
'Men of Athens, I notice that you are very religious, for as I
was walking along I saw your many (stone) altars. And one of them
had this inscription on it—'To an Unknown God.' You have been
worshiping him without knowing who he is, and now I wish to tell
you about him.'" (Acts 17:22-23 -New Living Translation)
Please notice, Paul did not blast their culture as Church-ianity
often does today. Rather he used it in a positive way.
The
culture has never been so Spiritually rich. Movies and popular
literature are filled with inscriptions "To an Unknown God."
It
is time to use these stones that are crying out to speak of
Jesus.
It
is time to speak as Bonhoeffer prophesied -without religious
jargon.
It
is time to become non religious followers of Jesus.
It
is time to use the culture to win the culture.
This
is the meaning of Palm Sunday and Fig Tree Monday.
YOUR
FEEDBACK:
I am interested in your views:
WHY IS THE CHURCH IN DECLINE?
The_Church_Is_In_Decline_Because
WHY
IS SPIRITUALITY INCREASING?
Spirituality_Is_Increasing_Because
DO
YOU THINK GOD IS DOING SOMETHING NEW?
I_Agree_God_Is_Doing_Something_New
I_Disagree_God_Isnt_Doing_Something_New
GENERAL
COMMENTS HERE
Newsletter_34_E-mail
Your
Comments will be posted below.
*************************
6. THE HOLLYWOOD JESUS USA TOUR
*************************
I
am planning a multimedia speaking tour through out the United
States this Summer.
If you would like me to speak at your church or group please contact
me, perhaps we can schedule a time. I look forward to meeting
with many of you. It will be a lot of fun.
David
Bruce
(541) 261- 2916
Speaking
Send
comments here: Newsletter_34_E-mail
Comments
will be posted below.
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May
God continue to bless you.
Warmly,
David Bruce
Web Master, Hollywood Jesus.
PS
To chat directly to me, e-mail: Private 2 David
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e-mail
your response
Homer,
Hunger and Heaven
Subject: Spirituality_Is_Increasing_Because
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002
From: "Ken Priebe"
I think Homer
Simpson makes an interesting (paraphrased) point:
"I live a good
life, why should I go to church just to hear that I’m going to hell?"
This is an interesting
dilemma. Much of it really boils down to our basic mindset as humans
since the Fall. Many ordinary people view Christianity and church
stuff as being all about "rules:" don’t have sex until you’re married,
don’t steal, don’t lie, don’t get tattoos, etc. The serpent told
the first people, "Eat this fruit and you can make up your own rules
and decide for yourselves what is right and wrong." We’ve all been
like that ever since, and increasingly more so in this age of moral
relativity/"political correctness." Some church organizations then
try forcing people to be holy, to be perfect, to be good, for what
reason? Because if you don’t, you’re going to Hell and you’re not
welcome until you clean up your act. So people try to clean up their
act and realize that they can’t do it, so they don’t go to church
because they feel guilty.
People don’t
want to hear this. We all would rather hear that everything’s all
right with us and all we need to do is try our best to be good people.
This poses another problem.
We all have,
as they say, a "God-shaped hole" in our hearts that needs to be
filled by something other than earthly pleasures. When this hole
can’t be filled by the message of so-called "Christian" organizations,
there creates a spiritual vacuum that the serpent is more than welcome
to fill. New Age ideas and Eastern religions are attractive to people
because they offer the thrills of religion without the cost. You
can have a sense of peace and purpose without all that stuff about
sin and judgement thrown in. There is a whole section in most book
stores devoted to "self-help" and "self-improvement." Some of these
books are very inspiring and contain good practical wisdom for improving
your life. However, a significant portion of them are also filled
with pap that brainwashes people into thinking that all they need
to feel good, successful, and "spiritual" is within them. Basically
they say you don’t need a savior other than yourself, and that you
can be your own god. Sound familiar? Who could possibly be trying
to convince people they don’t need to be saved by the only One who
can? Who could possibly be behind all this increasing "spirituality"
that goes against so much of what the Bible says? (Insert famous
quote by Saturday Night Live’s Church Lady here.)
Most of the world,
particularly North America, thinks that Heaven is puffy clouds and
harps, Hell is fire and pitchforks, that all religions are the same
and you just live the best life you can and God will pick up the
slack. The Bible, when read correctly, tells a different story.
The Bible tells us we are completely dead in our sins and transgressions,
until we are made alive in Christ. Without a sense of brokenness
and ultimate need for salvation through him, we are kidding ourselves;
we are DEAD!
Seen from this
angle, there is a dark side to this increasing spiritual movement
that we should be aware of. But I like to think, and I pray this
for people, that delving into all of the New Age deception would
be a stage that ultimately will lead to salvation through faith
in Christ, hopefully for as many as possible. This has been my experience.
I had such a hunger for God and truth, and wanted a belief system
I could live by. I had been turned-off by the smug-ness and creepy
happiness of most Christians I had met, so I turned elsewhere for
divine inspiration. I read many self-help books and got into New
Age philosophies and comparative religion/mythology. When events
in my life turned me back towards Christianity again, I began to
see the difference. But it happened when God knew I was ready for
it. He called me and showed me the truth when he knew I would understand
it. And knowing all that other stuff only makes my faith stronger
and gives me first-hand knowledge for witnessing to others.
Michael Ende’s
fantasy novel "The NeverEnding Story" speaks of every road that
leads to the Water of Life as being the right one. New Agers and
sincere spiritual seekers, though they may be deceived, are on the
right track in that they are searching desperately for the reality
of God. While the devil has many false ideas out there, God still
says "Seek and ye shall find." Such a sincere and desperate effort
to be moral, spiritual, and committed to one’s self-destiny is ample
preparation for becoming a humble follower of Jesus, because anyone
who tries ultimately fails. Hopefully we come to the realization
that we need to succumb to the will of God in Christ and accept
his gift of salvation in order to be "spiritual," because then we
can worship and participate in the true God’s divinity rather than
the false impression of our own.
It would obviously
also help if more Christians would study the Bible more effectively,
not withdraw from the world but study it too, and ultimately focus
on Jesus. Ya gotta pray…
Here’s a challenge:
if you only had 30 seconds to share the message of Christ with a
total stranger in an elevator, how would you do it?
Cheers,
Ken Priebe
http://www.geocities.com/madkap75.geo
I
WANTED TO BE A NUN
Subject:
I_Agree_God_Is_Doing_Something_New
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002
From: M Drakeford
GOD is doing
something new. I was called out in 1992 as a messenger. At the time
I didn't know any scriptures because as a child I was raised as
a Catholic. As a child I loved the LORD with all of my heart, mind
and soul. As a result I wanted to be a nun when I grew up so I could
work for GOD. I became disillusioned with the church from the things
I was seeing and hearing. I realize now GOD had given me great wisdom
to discern things. I left the religion, however. When GOD called
me out it was in response of me being appointed as a prayer warrior
by the new pastor to our church AME. All the other six prayer warriors
could pray so nicely from the scriptures. I knew I didn't even know
one scripture. I tried to get out of this appointment but I couldn't.
I then cried out to the LORD to help me and change me. He did. I
began one of the best prayer warriors because they prayed from the
scriptures and I prayed from my heart. All of my life as an introvert
I always spent hours doing nothing but talking to GOD in my mind.
He was my best friend. Through my role as intercessory prayer warrior
GOD took me places and showed me things. I then was called out as
an exhorter. The pastor was excited about this because they didn't
have any at the church. I made it very plan to him that GOD said
HE would teach me all I needed to know. GOD gave me a speaking voice
and put the words into my mouth that even surprised myself. The
wisdom and knowledge he gave me caused my pastor to become jealous.
The church was going and people wanted to know when I was bringing
the messenger. This really caused the pastor to really be upset.
Especially since I had never been to the seminary or had formal
education. GOD did what HE said HE would do. He used the Web. Dr.
Chuck Swindoll to be my teacher. He didn't even know it at the time.
GOD would have me get up each and every morning with my pen, paper
and bible. There was a whole line of teachers on WAVE Christian
Radio GOD had me listen to. I wasn't able to leave my house until
all of their programs were over. I still do this today. GOD had
taught me all I need to know to do his will. I saw a vision of myself
in front of a group of women who didn't look like myself. I knew
my purpose in life because GOD had revealed it to me. I witnessed
to a Muslim lady the second day on my job at school. She was training
me as a Media assistant. I told her I had an encounter with Christ
and HE said He was coming back and unless you accept Him as savior
because HE is the Messiah you won't be saved. I was crying while
telling her this. She began to cry too saying they were only taught
that HE was a prophet. I responded by saying, "I know that's why
I'm telling you this." We became good friends and I would share
Christ with her and she shared Islam with me. Knowing I was an exhorter
she asked if I would be willing to come to her mosque to share a
topic with women of other faiths. I asked what the topic was and
it was "Social and Religious Roles of Women in My denomination."
It was for the Muslim's Women organization. At the time I was at
a A.M.E. Church (African American EP). I remembered my vision and
accepted right away. I knew this was the vision GOD had showed me.
I have had four supernatural experiences. I know after all these
years GOD never forgot about me. I work for HIM now and He is using
me in some of the most unusual ways. I was led by GOD to write.
It took me two years to get to know the ways of GOD. HIS ways are
different from ours. I began keeping a very detailed diary in 1994.
I have witness to Jewish people too. My ministry is for those who
have accepted Christ but only as a prophet. I have danced out of
my slip like David, prophesied to the dead church that it would
live like Ezekiel did to the dry bones. When the spirit of GOD was
moving from the overflow from me I had to tell the church that we're
not drunk but just filled with the spirit. Portions of my diary
is straight out of the book of Deuteronomy from Moses' diary. I
cry a lot because I don't know what GOD is doing. I know Jesus said,
"We are going to do what He did and more." I believe this is what
HE was talking about. The title of my diary began "My Walk with
GOD." In 1998 It changed from My Walk with God, to My walk with
GOD through the Scriptures." Yes, GOD is doing something new.
GOD has been
moving in a mighty way for a long time but no one has been paying
any attention. I believe that's why HE told me to write. I diary
consists of six volumes now. Typed written and double sided. I know
things others people don't know. Some of the thing are:
1. Why O.J. Simpson
Couldn't be found guilty of murder
2. Why Mother Theresa and Princess Diana died a few days apart
3. Who Louise Farrahkan is as it relate to the scriptures
4. Why GOD allowed the enemy to attack us on 911
Make no mistake
about it JESUS is coming back and the world will be witnessed to
before HE does. A lot is being revealed today because HE also said,
"Nothing hidden will remain hidden every thing will be revealed
BEFORE HE come back."
Just like GOD
did in the past HE is still doing today. My name was changed to
reflect my new nature HE gave me when He changed me. It means Spirit-Filled
because he filled me with HIS spirit as a guaranteed that I would
do his will. He put HIS spirit in me so I would do HIS will. I do
it even if it might cost me my life. That HIS guarantee
Ruwach-male'
These
are large issues
Subject: Hollywood Jesus #34
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002
From: Tom
David: I tried
sending this to the address in the newsletter, but it came back,
so I'm sending it directly to you. Thx.
Why is the Church
in decline?
Why is spirituality growing?
Do you think God is doing something new?
David: I wasn't
sure how to tackle your questions without sounding perfunctory or
glib. These are large issues demanding a more rigorous discussion
than this brief posting will permit, but here are a few comments.
First, I think
it's important to acknowledge that the Church is the Body of Christ,
as distinct from the many traditions and structures which have grown
up around the Christian faith. Those who claim somehow to be Christians
outside the church don't really get it. The New Testament doesn't
recognize believers apart from the corporate body, which is seen
by Paul and other early writers as both the mystical and tangible
expression of fellowship with Christ. One might even say that joining
a church is the first act of Christian obedience, but this needs
to mean something more than just warming a pew.
Even so, if the
organized church in America is losing more people than it's gaining,
it has only itself to blame. Perhaps American churches have, by
and large, become too comfortable, too much a part of the mainstream.
Perhaps they've lost the revolutionary, prophetic fire of the catachumens
and the martyrs. Christ is no longer an "offense" to the established
order, as Kierkegaard believed Him ultimately to be. I am not suggesting
we go back to a time when Christians were stoned and burned and
driven underground, but I do think the contemporary church must
recover the courage and the passion of the first believers.
While the good
news of Jesus Christ is unchanging from age to age, both the method
and the medium must keep pace with each generation. Some churches
have taken aggressive steps to address this (examples: more contemporary
worship and more emphasis on active discipling vs. "dues-paying"
membership). In the developed democracies of the West, the church
is competing with an astounding number of world-views and cultural
forces. We have indeed, as you suggest, entered a post-Christian
era, a time in which some Judeo-Christian ethical norms may survive,
but the church itself will be greatly diminished if it doesn't find
new strategies for proclaiming its message.
My own experience
has been that many people who reject Christianity are ill-informed
about what it really is. Often they have seen some caricature of
the real thing and (understandably) didn't like it. Many disaffected
people don't even know what's in the New Testament. A friend of
mine was raised in a church that offered a weekly fare of human
guilt and divine judgement couched in very legalistic terms. He
fled from this and joined the pseudo-Christian "Course in Miracles"
movement. When I shared with him the message of love, grace, and
forgiveness from I John 4:7-21, he expressed amazement, saying he
had never heard this in the church of his youth. Sad but true.
The churches
showing the most growth seem to be the independent, conservative,
fundamentalist groups--perhaps because a dogmatic, authoritarian
approach to the Bible appeals to many who hunger for a prescriptive
structure that dispels all doubt and debate. On the other hand,
my own small church (part of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in
America) has nearly doubled in size in the past few years to about
500 members, so it's clear there is still life in some mainstream
churches. Yet mainstream churches still lose an alarming number
of young people every year.
I note this trend
even as I observe a vital interest in spirituality among the young--a
hunger for affirmation, authenticity, and wholeness. Compared to
the counterfeit currency that floods the marketplace of spiritual
ideas, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the truth they seek even if
they don't know it (the "unknown god" of the Athenians whom Paul
proclaimed as Christ). Perhaps the organized church has simply failed
to articulate this in a way that does ring true for many young people.
If the church does not tailor its historic, revolutionary message
to contemporaries, we can be sure that competing philosophies will
fill the gap--hedonism, scientology, crystal gazing, pantheism,
spirit channeling--the list goes on. We are spiritual beings, and
spiritually hungry people will seek nourishment the way a starving
person grabs for a crust of bread.
Is God doing
something new? Yes, I do see signs of this. You mentioned the tremendous
growth of Christianity in the Third World. This is an amazing development
in the history of the church, and I believe God will bless it and
somehow use it to bring new life into the struggling churches of
the West. Also the vast growth of the Internet is opening up possibilities
for ministry which we wouldn't have dreamed of 20 years ago. You
have demonstrated this through Hollywood Jesus. Who knows how many
lives have been touched?
Thanks, David.
God bless you.
--Tom Orr (Morristown, Indiana)
is
this a vote?
Subject: I_Agree_God_Is_Doing_Something_New
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002
From: Unsandi
I agree!!!! :)
(Praise God!)
Hmmm...
Subject: i_agree_god_is_doing_something_new
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002
From: Chris
You know...
My wife and I haven't been regularly attending church since we got
married in 2000. I've been wondering if something was wrong with
me. After all, I'm a Christian. I'm supposed to be rising up early
Sunday morning with a heart ready to serve and worship the Lord.
Right?
But somehow,
in spite of the prophecised doom and gloom I have gotten from people
because I haven't gone to church, I've come to know the Lord in
a stronger way. I've seen victories and deliverances that I've been
waiting for all my life.
Part of me wonders
if I'm missing the boat and if this "church sabbatical" is gonna
come back and bite me in the butt. Part of me is enjoying the freedom
to rest and enjoy a pleasant Sunday afternoon...something I haven't
been able to do after years of getting up at 9:30 to go to church
at 11:30 and getting out at 2:00 and having a quick lunch only to
gobble it down and hurry back to church at 4:00 for the 5:00 evening
service.
I don't quite
know what's going on. But from David's comments and from other people's
comments here, it looks like God is trying to transition us out
of being church dwellers and into followers and worshippers of Jesus.
Let us just sit back and see how He moves.
Chris Utley
Clueless
Subject: The_Church_Is_In_Decline_Because
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002
From: KEVIN
DITTO.
Peace;<><: Kevin.
http://community.webtv.net/KevinKunz/JESUSTHEWAY
Rediscovering
GOD!
Subject: I_Disagree_God_Int_Doing_Something_New
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002
) From: Kevin
DITTO.
Peace;<><: Kevin. http://community.webtv.net/KevinKunz/JESUSTHEWAY
Re:
The Force.
Subject: Spirituality_Is_Increasing_Because
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002
From: Kevin
DITTO.
Also, People don`t like having to do things, i.e. go to Church.
[I go to Church every sunday, (even more often).]
To quote; "Sister Act": "Because, it`s a drag"!.
Peace;<><: Kevin.
http://community.webtv.net/KevinKunz/JESUSTHEWAY
God's
choice of people is all people.
Subject: Newsletter_34
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002
From: "Ted Thompson"
Hi,
About 66 AD a book was written worning the people of that time that
He (God) was discusted with His Chosen People after trying time
after time over thousands of years, to get them to streighten up.
So, he told the people what was going to happen to his Chosen People
and the Land He gave them (the 12 tribes). This information was
given to the author of the Book by God thru Jesus's Angel and the
Book is the closest N.T. writing to God's and Jesus's authorization.
This book is normally the last book in the Holy Bible.
It all came true!
The land of Isrl. was completely distroyed and God denounced His
House so he let the Temple be desrtoyed and will never let it be
rebuilt as it was. The Temple was destroyed, only leaving a Wall
to remind the people what he let be done by the Roman armys.
Their World was
their Land that God had given them and and at that time took back
from them. They had made their Land a World of horrors.
Nero is the 666
which a lot of books have been written, although many of the authors
did or do not understand the Bible. Also many authors and publishers
have made billions of dollars with misconceptions; such as that
the "War" of Armigeddion which was a gathering place and not a War,
nor will it ever be such by God's hand.
Read and study
hard (using the rest of the Bible and other History books), the
Book of Rev., and ""you will be blessed"".
Thanks for
all,
God Bless
Ted Thompson Phoenix, AZ
Why
church #'s Drop
Subject: Spirituality_Is_Increasing_Because
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002
From: Bob
Hey David,
Well, we live in the Midwest in Wheaton so I don't know how this
compares to other places.
1. The church
lacks grace. I think the church has less grace than the Bar in Cheers.
It is a critical club mentality and people of one type attend. Those
who give a lot of money and are active believe themselves more important
than others. So my guess is the broader spectrum of society will
feel judged there for superficial things in the measure of appearance
or type, or behavior (like movie attendance in some places). Church
just isn't very diverse so if you are at all different from the
mean you will be uncomfortable. The present and just past generation
of youth has no real mean, it is post modern. So being untypical
as a norm they will not easily fit into a church setting.
2. The church
does not project a loving Spirit filled environment of forgiven
sinners. After graduate School, when I was in Seminary for a year
it was suggested Church discipline might be a solution to the unloving
nature of churchmen but how do you discipline someone for pride,
or gossip or slander. These things are just as damaging to us as
an online addiction to something but only the latter would be confronted
by the elders if that. Church isn't safe and I am reasonably sure
more than half of the people in attendance there are not Christians.
Francis Schafer and RC Sproul both said that 70% of those in attendance
at church on Sunday are not saved. So in this community one does
not easily sense the presence of God. I don't feel safe there and
I have nothing to hide except my earring and pony tail (it is shorter
than the founders as depicted in "The Patriot"). The church is weak
without leaders who love and cannot really purify itself. I suppose
this is why the blood of the Martyrs is the seed of the church,
it keeps it pure, in a manner few other things will. Speaking as
someone who has youth pastored in the evangelical church and mainline
church I believe the mainline churches have a different problem,
they have really lost the spirit with rare exception, for the most
part by departing from the scriptures. The Bishop of the denomination
I served in the Northern Chicago area did not believe in the deity
of Christ for example so this will have spiritually deprecating
trickle down effects.
3. The Church
does not pray. Prayer meeting which are well attended are uncommon,
few people go or believe in the importance of praying as a body
for the church. I have a graduate degree in theology and I have
thought and read about these things a bit. Unless I misread the
scriptures I believe there is only one answer for our problems and
it is prayer. This seems to be the last resort. But Christ says
He will build His Church and the programmatic and theological ideas
are not going to solve what is really in decline in our churches
which is spirituality or the real sense of the presence of the Holy
Spirit. Why are the Churches in decline while interest in spirituality
is up? Because God will only move in these places if the glory is
His, if the glory goes to our programs, or our perceived goodness
the result will be a poison to our own souls with a net loss when
all is said and done. He must be first in everything and this comes
only by our prayers. When we are desperate enough we will go there
and do it and He will bless and no one will say it was their effort
or program or method than made the results, which many in the church
growth movement say now.
Peace Out,
Bob
Rediscovering
GOD!
Subject: I_Disagree_God_Isnt_Doing_Something_New
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002
From: Keith
T People,
are tired, of having their lives run, by spiritual, dictators.
They, are breaking free, and Rediscovering, Jesus of the gospels.
The who said "The Sabbath, was made for man, not man for the sabbath"
And "Let he, who is without sin, cast the first, stone." something
most churches don't agree with. your bro!
Keith w. Kunz
sent with joy and love! †
http://community.webtv.net/KeithWK/PSALM45
http://community.webtv.net/KeithWK/Thepottersclay
JEWISH
BELIEVERS
Subject: I_Agree_God_Is_Doing_Something_New
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002
From: Steve
Yes.... God
is raising up Jewish believers in Yeshua Almost one million alone
in the U.S. The rapture will soon occur. Many will be left behind
.... LEFT BEHIND THE MOVIE IS WONDERFUL AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE
A TESTIMONY. MANY IN HOLLYWOOD WILL BE LEFT BEHIND ... IT WILL
SHAKE THE WHOLE FILM INDUSTRY TO THE CORE. JESUS IS COMING SOON
HI
DAVE, YOUR SITE ROCKS!
Subject: I_Agree_God_Is_Doing_Something_New
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002
From: Angus
Hi Dave and readers,
please ignore my poor spelling as I am a terrible speller!!
No wonder there
is a decline in the church attendence but a increase in spirituality.
No one in the secular world trusts the leaders of the church, they
have lost thier 'control', they (the babyboomer's) have turned religion
into bussiness, churchs are now franchises and run no different
then 'Mc Donalds or Burger King'(although Burger king pays it's
workers and church workers are constantly exploited, next thing
they will need is a union to take charge of this, imagine that!).
The whole concept of church has been perverted, by hidden agenders,
using the pulpit as a means for finaicial gain and political and
personal agenders. And ofcourse what you have brought to light in
previous news letters about the 'family -church emphisise' which
is great if you've got one, but most of us in the world don't have
such a luxuary. I can't begin to tell you of how many 'back -slidden'
(if that is even a real word) christians I have meet, they have
heard it all before and offcourse they were hurt, most, infact all
were creative people, who were trying to express there vison in
a church that had non. I beleive that a 'revival' is coming, just
like all the 'big' church's go on about, but this 'revival' is going
to be a new 'denomination' a new arm or movement that will have
no name (although I am sure someone will give it one), and this
will be a church with no walls, no buildings, no religious ritual,
no repetivtive 70's folk songs,no offerings, no books and tape series,
no bussines, this 'revival' will effect young and old rich and poor
and they will be in the most un-church'ed arreas of life, from all
the many sub cultures, artist's, musicians, poets, writers, film
makers, even gay and lesbians who hav'nt even had a chance to step
foot in the church -'hate the sin, but love the sinner' -why say
this , it's like saying, 'God hates your cloths and the way you
speak, but sure loves you' the word hate, is a strong word.
The world is
hungry for a God that truly loves them unconditionly, they want
this 'Jesus' but can never see past the church walls to see the
truth about this messiah, so it's easier just to forgget all about
it or try something new. The chuch walls get bigger and bigger,
they reach higher and higher, I have heard it so many times within
church's that decisions are made for purley finacial resons. I have
worked in the church and seen things that have greatly disturbed
me, but I wasn't going to let that stop me, I see the modern church
as the Cinema, which is why I am a film maker, and the sad thing
is , is that you try telling the church that you want to make 'real'
feature films, they can't see it, so I find myself working with
secular people as they 'see' it. A great example is when I travled
around the States (as I am from New Zealand/ Australia), there was
so much Church-anity and when I got to Hollywood, there was nothing!
A whole mission field, empty, a harvest ready to be picked and no
one to do it, so many lost souls wonder into Hollywood every day,
and I have heard the sad storys of what happens to them. A new church,
a church with no walls 'The Invisable Church' is what Hollywood
needs,what the world needs, no buzz words, no rituals, no religion,
no bussiness, no man, just Jesus. You want a revival, there it is,
just waiting...Imagine that.
Great site Dave
and the more we 'christians' get in there (Hollywood) the better
it will be..I hope
Cheers
Angus
WHO IS DOING SOMETHING NEW?
Subject:
I_Agree_God_Is_Doing_Something_New
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002
From: Brian
My agreement
on this issue is not a total agreement. I think it is more that
we are finally seeing what God has been doing since the beginning
of time. God didn't change, in the fullest since of the word, we
did. Christians are realizing how much WE get in the way. We're
backing off and allowing God to move. We're opening up to the Bible.
We're letting him run the Church and not the other way around.
Church-ianity
(a great word), if I understand you correctly, is simply more of
humanity trying to reach God...it's a modern Tower of Babel. For
centuries, Christians have tried to make church work. I remember
pastors saying, "If you just get your friends to church..." as if
walking through a door was salvation. Church doesn't answer the
eternal questions people have, it never has. Praise God we are beginning
to see this.
So, I agree
something new is happening, but I think it's more God opening
our eyes to how He has always been.
Brian Terrell
CHURCH
ATTENDANCE
Subject: Spirituality_Is_Increasing_Because
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002
From: padre
Hi all,
As a Pastor, the frustrating reality about declining attendance
is - IT IS TOTALLY PREVENTABLE!
If those who
are Christian wish to spend more time, money and effort determining
who can come into their church, how "they" ought to worship the
way "we" worship, and "why they don't do everything our way" it
is easy to see why people don't "go to church."
People who want
to WORSHIP Almighty God are stopped by so many of us who want to
"go to church the right way" instead of coming to recieve what God
wants to give.
As I mentioned
to some of our Church (and it made some of them flinch) "Our call
is to feed the spiritually hungry. Are we spending our time feeding
them or are we spending our time polishing the silverware?"
PEACE and
JOY!
padre
CLUELESS
Subject: The_Church_Is_In_Decline_Because
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002
From: Keith Kunz
I could go on
for, hours, giving examples.
But, it boils down to [a great phrase].
Joy. churches, don`t, teach, encourage,
nor[a great word] express Christ`s Joy.
your bro!
keith w. kunz
sent with
joy and love! †
http://community.webtv.net/KeithWK/PSALM45
http://community.webtv.net/KeithWK/Thepottersclay
KEEP
ON KEEPIN ON
Subject: Hollywood Jesus Newsletter
#34
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002
From: Chris Utley
you continue to blow me away with your insights. keep on keepin'
on!
WHO
IS DOING SOMETHING NEW?
Subject: I_Agree_God_Is_Doing_Something_New
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002
From: Brian
My agreement
on this issue is not a total agreement. I think it is more that
we are finally seeing what God has been doing since the beginning
of time. God didn't change, in the fullest since of the word, we
did. Christians are realizing how much WE get in the way. We're
backing off and allowing God to move. We're opening up to the Bible.
We're letting him run the Church and not the other way around.
Church-ianity
(a great word), if I understand you correctly, is simply more of
humanity trying to reach God...it's a modern Tower of Babel. For
centuries, Christians have tried to make church work. I remember
pastors saying, "If you just get your friends to church..." as if
walking through a door was salvation. Church doesn't answer the
eternal questions people have, it never has. Praise God we are beginning
to see this.
So, I agree something
new is happening, but I think it's more God opening our eyes to
how He has always been.
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