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COMMENTS
ON 9-11
Subject: Newsletter 29
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001
From: "Doctor Jones"
I have a few
comments to make on the subject of 9-11-01 and some things that
I read here on this site. First I would like to say that I do
not see that day as a judgement from God but an early warning
sign. A precursor as to what will take place in this world. I
believe that we live in an evil wicked generation and that we
will reap the consequences for all things done. Whether we had
a hand in it personally or whether we stood by and watched.
We as christians
have failed to live as Christ would. We have failed to extend
grace to one another and we have failed to follow the ways of
Christ. The love of God has been abused in this world and in the
ever changing cultural atmosphere we live in. There was a time
that the things we so readily accept today were not only not acceptable
but deserving of death. Things have changed. We no longer protect
our children as closely as we should. They see almost everything
that the world has to offer. They are exposed to sex, violence,
lies and witchcraft. This because we see it as harmless fun. They
watch and play all sorts of video games. Think about it, when
we are called to be Holy, what exactly does that mean? When we
are set apart by God what does that mean? I have not allowed my
children to see Harry Potter because the Holy Spirit has convicted
me of the place of witchcraft in a believers life. He has shown
me that the things the world so readily accepts we shouldn't be.
Sure it might makes us more fun to be around but what does it
get us in eternity?
I am not a
fear mongerer neither am I a hater of myths. I do know that if
God is not glorified I don't need to be involved. Judgement is
going to be an awful thing for unbelievers. It will expose us
christians for who we truly are. What happened on Sept. 11th won't
hold a candle to what is going to happen when God's wrath is poured
out on this world. That is a point we should take very seriously.
If Harry Potter
and the Lord of the Rings have a hint of things that God said
is unacceptable should we accept them? I believe that we as Americans
have been so blessed with freedoms that we forget that there is
ultimately a consequence to everything. So the next time someone
says that something is wrong do not be so quick to say be tolerant.
That word doesn't appear in the Bible. Be quicker to stop and
think what reward or consequence will this earn me. Because ultimately
that is what we are to be working for.
Salvation
has been offered to us at a high price. Let's stop playing with
that and take on the attitude that the one who offered it does
not accept what we do because it makes us look or feel good. Or
puts us in good standing with those around us. God will not and
is not looking at that as much as our holding to His word and
living by uncompromising standards.
I have not
always been a Christian and it amazes me how much people who claim
to be christian are oh so willing to mix the world with the truth.
Remember the scripture about leaven? It leaveneth the whole lump!
Are you leavened or unleavened?
Response:
The Isolationism that you are endorsing in the name of children
is dangerous. You go too far in questioning CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien.
The Shakers held isolationist views like you and today they are
no more. The heart of Christianity is found in dirty finger nails.
"Go ye into all the world..." Use culture to win culture.
Salvation has do with what Jesus did. Being in the world and exposed
to the world does not subtract anything from Salvation. The leaven
that you speak of has to do with adding my own righteousness to
the work of Christ. This is the essence of witchcraft. You fall
into the very pit you try to avoid: Consider Galations 3:1-5,
Galatians
3:1-5 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It
was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly exhibited
as crucified! The only thing I want to learn from you is this:
Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or
by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Having
started with the Spirit, are you now ending with the flesh?
Did you experience so much for nothing?--if it really was for
nothing. Well then, does God supply you with the Spirit and
work miracles among you by your doing the works of the law,
or by your believing what you heard?
IF...
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001
From: Chris Utley
What if your
child, son, daughter, brother, sister, mother, father, best friend,
husband or wife died in the 9-11 tragedy. Would you be so quick
to pull out Scripture and blame what happened on God?
Chris Utley
ARTICLE
RESPONSE
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001
From: Nancy
Thanks for
the great article / thoughts. I can really relate to what you're
saying, so much more than the doom and gloom and 'judgemental'
tendency that can happen - and seems to have by the people you've
quoted.. What a privilege to know and love a God who, above all,
knows and loves us first.
Nancy
I
AGREE
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001
From: George
I agree; 9/11
was not a judgment from God. He does not destroy life to make
a point. America is not a Christian nation perse, and such a point
would be lost on our postmodern culture. It would also turn many
believers away..What this tragedy is, is an opportunity for believers
to share the reality and relevanve of a loving God in our hurting
world. Keep up the good work.
George
ARTICLE
RESPONSE
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001
From: Nancy
Thanks for
the great article / thoughts. I can really relate to what you're
saying, so much more than the doom and gloom and 'judgemental'
tendency that can happen - and seems to have by the people you've
quoted.. What a privilege to know and love a God who, above all,
knows and loves us first.
Nancy
I
AGREE
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001
From: George
I agree; 9/11
was not a judgment from God. He does not destroy life to make
a point. America is not a Christian nation perse, and such a point
would be lost on our postmodern culture. It would also turn many
believers away..What this tragedy is, is an opportunity for believers
to share the reality and relevanve of a loving God in our hurting
world. Keep up the good work.
George
WHAT
YOU MEANT FOR EVIl...
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001
From: Kay
can't we all
see that the 9-11 attacks were evil, pure and simple. so they
can't be from God. yeah Pres. Bush for telling it like it is.
and only a God like the One we serve can redeem any or all of
this---its up to Him, and we are His instruments to be used as
He sees fit in the re-ordering and re-constructing process. We
are His hands and feet now more than ever--to show love and kindness
is the midst of brutal hatred and....yes....evil....why we have
such a hard time with the "E" word is beyond me. Evil is real,
it exists, and it oftentimes has a face...we are to confront it,
without fear, and live in the knowledge that God has the last
word in Jesus. Period. He wins in the end. We know the end of
the story. Now its up to us to live like we know it. "Get ye behind
me, Satan!"...Jesus acknowledges the evil one, and knows that
his power, although great, is limited...we will only know the
answer to the question of the power of evil when we are in heaven,
experiencing the glories and majesty of God. And we can only get
there by confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior. Sorry---I don't
make the rules. I just try to follow them as best and/or as feebly
as I can.
Amen!
WHAT
ARE THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH?
Subject: Newsletter 29
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001
From: AL
I HAVE OFTEN
ASKED MYSELF, "WHAT ARE THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH?"
THE TERM "FUNDAMENTALIST" HAS COME TO MEAN "ANY ONE WHO DISAGREES
WITH ME." IN 1895, A GROUP OF FERVENT BELIEVERS GOT TOGETHER IN
NIAGARA FALLS, NY AND PROPOSED A LIST OF THE FIVE FUNDAMENTALS
OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH. THEY LISTED: 1.INERRANCY OF SCRIPTURE,2.DIVINITY
OF JESUS,3.THE VIRGIN BIRTH,4.JESUS DEATH ON THE CROSS AS A SUBSTITUTE
FOR OUR SINS,5.THE PHYSICAL RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST. AS LONG
AS YOU BELIEVE THESE FIVE THINGS, YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN. IT SEEMS
AS IF IT IS A PART OF MAN'S NATURE TO WANT TO BECOME A RULE MAKER.
JESUS SAID TO FOLLOW HIM, NOT TO MAKE RULES FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO
FOLLOW. I CONSIDER MYSELF A FUNDAMENTALIST BECAUSE I BELIEVE THESE
FIVE FUNDAMENTALS ARE ESSENTIAL TO CHRISTIAN LIFE.
Response:
The Fundamentalists do indeed believe in the 5 fundamentals as
you say. However, not all who believe in the 5 fundamentals consider
themselves fundamentalist. There is a difference between being
a fundamentalist and believing in the fundamentals of faith. I
believe in the fundamentals, but I am not a fundamentalist.
Billy Graham and a host of others take this same position. I am
a neo-evangelical. -David
WOW
-GREAT EDITORIALS
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001
From: Stephen
I received
a link to your newsletter from gospelcom.net. It is refreshing
to read a positive view of life - I get fed up with the "doomsday"
Christians. God wants us to be happy and live a fabulous life
with him and through him. I intend to do that for myself and my
children. Thanks for breathing sanity into some of these ridiculous
issues: 9-11, Harry Potter etc.
Stephen
Response:
You are welcome. I try. -David
AMEN,
BUT...
Subject:
Newsletter_29
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001
From: Bob
I agree you
with you on the outrageousness of the fundamentalist claims that
we deserved the 9/11 tradegy. What a gross distortion of the Gospel.
It implies that some people are worse sinners than others. We
all fall short of the glory of God. However, how do you reckon
with the fact that a sovereign God allowed it to happen?
Bob
Response:
Without free choice we are puppets on a string! We are held responsible
for our choices and actions. Justice will ultimatly come. Until
then we are free to sin or seek the higher road. Beyond this life
is a mystery to me. -David
GOD
REMOVED HIS HAND FROM AMERICA
Subject:
Newsletter_29
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001
From: "Steve Slesinger"
Of course,
God didn't cause the violence on 9/11. He is the author of good,
not evil. However, He is in charge of everything, and ultimately
He did allow it to happen. Evil men, directed by Satan, caused
the damage. Maybe God even minimized it to some extent, but God
allowed it to happen. Has he removed his protection from us? America
has become an ungodly nation, that's a fact...
Response:
You use a backdoor approach to say that God is responsible. You
also feel that America deserved it. We disagree, very much. But,
that's okay, right? God bless you and thanks for your input. -David
CHANGING
JOHN 3:16?
Subject:
'Newsletter_29_Revising John_3_16
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001
From: "Robert Searle"
I don't believe
that the Christian leaders you quoted are changing John 3:16.
I believe that they just did't think through their statements
carefully. One should always pray & think before issuing public
statements about events such as 9:11. I do think they have somewhat
of a point. God is the Soveriegn Lord of the universe. Nothing
happens that he does not allow to happen. (See the first 2 chapters
of Job) He does not cause evil, but He does allow us (humans)
to choose to follow Him or not and to reap the rewards or consequences
of that choice. I think that the events of 9:11 should serve as
a wake up call to the churches in America and to Americans in
general. A study of the history of God's dealings with His chosen
nation - Israel - will show that He repeatedly warned them and
tried to get them to follow Him. He did finally send them into
captivity and after the rejection of Christ, dispersed them through
out the world. He has not finished dealing with them yet. Consequently,
the United States, the most "Christian" and blessed nation in
recent history, should be aware that God can remove his blessing
if we continue to mock Him. God has always hated sin, but LOVED
the sinner. Jesus compassionately offered the woman at the well
"Living Water". But, He also told her to sin no more. I believe
that the church in America has become secularized and has lost
it's salt. We need to get it back, or God will judge not only
the church (Rev. 3:13-22), but our nation as well.
Robert Searle
MORE
ON SEPT 11
Subject:
Newsletter_29
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001
From: Des Carroll Melbourne, Australia
In your feedback
from readers Samuel Ewing has the courage to point out some harsh
realities. However, from an Australian perspective, the US is
not alone in this criticism - it just has a high profile for obvious
reasons.
Another US
Christian observer has noted the following:
However,
let's assess the State of the Union in the mirror of God's Word.
Homosexuality is accepted as simply "an alternative lifestyle."
We murder babies that are socially inconvenient. We change marriage
partners like a fashion statement. We have abandoned the sanctity
of commitments in our families and in our businesses. Immorality
and deceit have come to characterize the highest offices in our
land; our politics have condoned and covered up more murders than
we dare list. Our public enterprises have been prostituted to
the convenience of the elite. Our mainline media takes pride in
forming public opinion rather than informing it, which had been
its sacred role in a representative republic. Our culture has
disconnected character from destiny. Our entertainments celebrate
adultery, fornication, violence, aberrant sexual practices and
every imaginable form of evil. We have become the primary exporters
of everything that God abhors.
As we study
the rise and fall of nations, there is a disturbing sequence throughout
history. The sequence of nations, as observed by Alexander Tyler,
1750, follows a predictable pattern "from bondage to spiritual
faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to
liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to complacency;
from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependence
back again into bondage." It is hard to deny that we may well
be at the zenith of that sequence. If you ask the average American
what is the biggest problem facing our nation, Is it ignorance
or apathy? He will likely answer, "I don't know and I don't care!"
It remains
to be seen whether the wake-up call of September 11, 2001, will
prove to be more effective than simply a brief spasm of patriotism,
or whether it may lead to a more serious revival and return to
our heritage. In any case, we each need to prepare and to rise
to the opportunities that present themselves for a spiritual revival
and we must begin with ourselves. God has declared an immutable
principle:
If my people,
who are called by My name, will humble themselves, and pray, and
seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear
from heaven, forgive their sin, and heal their land. 2 Chronicles
7:14
Notice
that this isn't addressed to the Congress, or the Administration,
or to the pagan left. It is addressed to His people, who are called
by His name. It is the members of the Body of Christ that are
standing in the way of what God would prefer to do in our land.
A revival needs to begin with us.
Another contributor,
Brian Terrell, is somewhat taken to task over implying that the
US is Godless. We need to dig deeper on this. Just like Australia,
where a majority of the population would class itself as Christian,
it is not hard to get an increase in fervour and fill the churches
in difficult and challenging times. However, it would not be unreasonable
to suggest that many of these people do not have a strong personal
relationship with Jesus nor consciously seek to align their wills
with His.
I think we
need to do two things:
1.We need
to seriously check our relationship with God so that we live as
genuine God-filled people, not perceived as God-less people who
pull the "Trust in God' label when it suits us.
2.We need
to express our Godliness in our communities in very active ways
so that our societies and governments do not continue their slide
into the sad state predicted above. Ie., we need to get real and
get active!
Thanks for
the forum and the opportunity. It has been most useful.
Des Carroll Melbourne,
Australia
EVENTS
OF SEPTEMBER 11 --GOD'S JUDGEMENT?
Subject:
Newsletter_29
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001
From: Dale
I believe
we are embarking upon a dangerous course when we denounce fundamentalist
views.USA is a great country -- its Constitution guaranteeing
many freedoms.Yet by the very nature of its existence,it is self-
destructing.
Immorality,decadence,self-interest,reverse
discrimination against fundamentalist christianity,permissiveness;and
indeed the insistence that "it is my right",are all by-products
of our tolerance. It has quickly become accepted that there is
really no right or wrong.We excuse wrongs (deeds ,actions ,etc.that
are contrary to scripture).They are consistently written off as
being nothing more than just a different lifestyle."Your truth",as
well as "my truth",are equally accepted as "truth" as long as
each party passionately believes in what they profess.
What makes
us so arrogant that we believe God would not punish us for our
corruption?
Did He spare
the Children of Israel,His chosen nation? What about the numerous
countries and peoples brought to destruction for their evil and
sin,related to us in the Bible? What about Sodom and Gomorrah?
Why do we consider ourselves any better,and exempt from correction?
We can't presume to speak for God and to His motives.We can't
credibly predict or assign any given event as punishment from
God -- yet we must not rule it out either.
Tolerance
is for individuals, not immoral activities.Scripture shows that
we are to love the sinner( which we all are) and not the sin.It
is not wrong nor does it constitute hate,to take a stand against
the activity or deeds that are contrary to scripture.
We desperately
need, as individuals & as a nation, to search our hearts and motives.We
need God to convict us of our sins. I submit that we compromise
ourselves,and our nation, when we relax our stand on right and
wrong.Truth is not open to interpretation -- it is God given!
We need to turn to Bible to find God's clear & concise revelation
of it.
Yours In Christ, Dale
Response:
What do any of your issues have to do with the WTC slaughter of
innocent people? I simply can not connect it as you do. Precious
humans were killed by real evil, and not because people do not
believe as you do. Sorry for my strong words. Thanks for writing,
God bless you -David
THOUGHTS
ON 9/11
Subject:
Newsletter_29
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001
From: Alan Meyers
I very much
appreciate your remarks about the meaning of September 11 from
a Christian point of view. (I have only just today been introduced
to your Website; sorry this is so late.) I am in agreement with
you, certainly. But, without going along with the views expressed
by Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, I have to say that I understand,
generally speaking, where they're coming from. Those of us who
are grounded in the Bible are familiar with the assumption that
God is in control of history and uses events to achieve his purposes.
Among the chief exponents of this idea are the prophets of Israel.
When Jeremiah saw the Babylonians at the gates of Jerusalem, he
just naturally figured that they were there doing God's will,
even though the Babylonians themselves may not have known that.
He took the destruction of the holy city to be God's judgment
on his people for their sins. This was the common belief of the
Old Testament prophets generally. Falwell and Robertson see themselves,
no doubt, as playing the role of the prophets for our time and
for the American people: they feel they need to interpret events
of the day in light of God's purposes and God's actions. Given
their assumptions about what the main things are that Americans
are doing wrong today (abortion, homosexuality, etc.), it seems
only natural to interpret the events of 9/11 as judgment on those
things. An interesting point to me is that some people other than
Falwell and Robertson base their thinking less consciously on
the Bible but still think Biblically, in that they, too, assume
that America's own actions have brought this destruction on us;
the only difference is that they think it is things like our siding
with Israel and our support of dictatorial regimes, etc., that
have caused many in the world to hate us and so incited terrorism.
But they are still thinking like the prophets, in a way. Biblical
thinking is VERY deeply ingrained in America, much more than secular-minded
people think. My question is: how can we RESPONSIBLY take a Biblical
point of view, one that Isaiah and Micah and Amos and Jeremiah
would have found acceptable, toward the events of the day? Is
there NO sense in which 9/11 represents God's judgment? Does the
Old Testament prophets' approach have relevance for us 21st century
American Christians? I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.
Thanks. -- Alan Meyers
Response:
There is no sense that 9/11 is an action of God. Period. Innocent
people were killed. Children were left without parents. Believers
died. People that needed to respond to the gospel died. Judgment
is a future -end of the world- event, according to scripture.
-David
VITAL
INSIGHT FROM RENE GIRARD
Subject: Newsletter #29
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001
From: Robert
I'm a Canadian
pastor who, like many folks in my country, has alway felt slightly
eclipsed by the US. Before Sept 11, I think most Canadians resented
(if only a little) our neighbours to the south -- sometimes we
did so quietly other times with a lot of zeal. That all changed
for me when I witnessed the WTC collapse. I now resolutely stand
by my friends to the South.
I believe
in the provedential care of the Holy Spirit, which works in the
world, through humankind, and across history.
 Rene
Girard, one of the great living thinkers, says that now, more
than any other era in history, we live in the best and the worst
of times. Sure the modern world has endured some of the worst
iniquities (the Holocaust, the Khmir Rouge, Somalia, Bosnia, etc.)
but it has also experienced some truly exceptional moments (Indian
Home rule, the Rights Revolution, etc.). Girard points out that
more humans died in the 20th C. than any other time in history
but, simultaneously, more humans were saved by the people of this
era.
What's his
premise?
 We
have realized that persecuting innocent victims is wrong. The
message of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures -- that scapegoating
goes against the divine will -- has been slowly sinking into the
thick skulls of folks in the West for 2,000 years (Hebrew Scripture:
see Isaiah 53; Christian Scripture: see the Passion of Jesus in
the four Gospels). We're constantly absorbing the amazing message
of the innocence of the scapegoat and putting our new found insights
towards improving our society in response to the revelation of
the innocent victim. Our Civilization is far from perfect but
we do more to protect weak, destitute, marginalized people than
any other civilization at any other era -- period!
Instead of
condemning the US we should be working towards maintaining the
very real good that lies at the heart of our civilization.
I'm not saying
this in a jingoistic way, I recognize the value in other civilizations
beside our Christian one. What I'm saying is our civilization
is as good as the rest. We've been bashing the Christian one for
most of the 20th C. Now that we're in a new millenium, maybe we
can re-discover our true value.
 Response:
Wow! If I lived in your area I would attend your church. Any pastor
who reads Rene Girard knows what's happening in the world and
knows how God is moving. So many pastors have no clue of the meaning
of world events, they have been infected with the Hal Lindsey
anti-Americanism and Left Behind nonsense. Thank you for your
incredible input. And may God bless your ministry. If you will
send the address of your church I will post it and encourage people
to check it out. Again, to know that there are such pastors as
you is like medicine to my soul. -David
MTV
AND VH1 AND A SINFUL NATION
Subject: Newsletter_29_God_Is_Judging
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001
From: Christina
I wouldn't
presume to know what God's intentions were in allowing the September
11 attacks to occur. I don't, however, believe it is impossible
that God is angry with our country. The vast majority of the people
in this country do not have a personal relationship with the Lord,
even though we put "Christian" masks on through our church affiliations.
And frankly, immorality is so rampant that there is very little
behavior that is not acceptable in our society. I mean, have you
watched M-TV or VH1 lately? What's OK now wasn't OK even 20 years
ago when I was a kid. We are a far cry from who we were as a nation
when we were founded. Sure, God is love, of course. But he can't
possibly be happy with the sinful state of our country. I don't
believe my opinion puts me in Bin Laden's camp, either. The Lord
has, in many instances, allowed "enemy" nations to conquer His
people as punishment for sin.
Response:
"For God so hated MTV that he allowed planes..." Hmm,
I don't think so. I will be very frank with you: I would not be
a Christian if it meant believing in a God that commits WTC tragedies.
Period. I would not worship such a tyrant and hateful God. Such
characterizations of God are intolerable to me. "God is love."
Sometimes love needs to be tough, but the WTC is totally out side
the scope of tough love. -David
THANK
YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU
Subject:Newsletter_29
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001
From: "J.D. Ferguson"
For verbalizing
the very thoughts I have been having. I couldn't have said it
better!
J.D. Ferguson
www.JD.Fergus.com
JD@Fergus.com
GOD'S
JUDGEMENT
Subject: Newsletter #29
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001
From: Dan
Greeting in
the Precious Name of our LORD Jesus Christ
I believe
that when the judgement of God is sent forth, all people will
know the Source. This continuous second guessing and self declaration
of being a prophet is growing weary. The many false prophets of
old were the first to recieve the retribution and judgement of
God. When these false naysayers of today are struck by power from
on high, we will then know that God has moved.
There has
always been war between people of the earth and it will continue
as the LORD allows for fulfillment of His Master Plan with a complete
timeline known only to Him.
If all the
donated dollars were spent evangelizing and serving God, there
would be less fear and greater joy in the kingdom. It matters
not when He returns or what judgement befalls - to those that
are on the salvation side and spreading the Gospel to the fullness
of time.
I am much
more concerned that people are thumbing their noses at God and
then sending children into movie theatres that are blatantly teaching
witchcraft as the healthy way of life or reading popular childrens
books that bring it directly into the home. Let us reason together
and quite standing alone hoping to be the top dog of the church
world. Let us prophesy that God's glory will once again manifest
itself on a people that are united and serving in one body and
that being the Body of Jesus Christ.
IN His Service
Bro. dan
GOD
OF LOVE AND JUSTICE
Subject: Newsletter #29_Revising.John_3_16
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001
From: "Stan Wieber from JESUS INC."
The God of
the Bible is a God of Love and Justice. He will eventually judge
people by their deeds, good or bad. But He can only judge nations
on this side of eternity. And the Old Testament has plenty of
examples of His judgement on Israel and surrounding nations.
People like
David Wilkerson simply point out that God is a God of His Word.
What He did to judge evil in the Bible He will be consistent in
this present time. We should not be surprised when God allows
the Destroyer to wreck havoc on America. A nation whose sins have
caused its protective divine covering to be eroded. One should
not be too fast to speak against those who alert people to what
scripture says about the nature of God's ways of dealing with
the nations.
Repentence
is a gift from God to lead us back to Him. Unless His Church in
America follows His Word in II Chronicles 7:14 we face a time
of greater lawlessness and upheaval in American society.
This scripture
states: "If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves,
and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then
will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their
land."
Stan Wieber
Response:
No matter how you couch it, I do not believe that God is responsible
for 9-11. In your logic you make the Church the guilty party for
not repenting. So God permitted 9-11 because the Church was not
praying. Hmm. I think not. -David
THOUGHTS
Subject: Newsletter #29 _Revising.John_3_16
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001
From: Steven
I agree to
a certain point I guess, I will have to think about what you've
said even more but I want to thank you for helping me to think
a little deeper on this. I just turned 50 on Friday and I teach
a Sunday School Class made up of mostly 65-75 year olds and they
have this doomsday attitude and to a point I guess from talking
to them I have gotten it to. Thanks again and I may just read
this to the class in a week. It just gives us something to think
about.. thanks again
My Web Pages http://www2.wcoil.com/~shollar
Response:
Yes it is time to get these precious people to think different.
May God be with you. -David
ALTERING
SCRIPTURE
Subject: Newsletter #29 _Revising.John_3_16
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001
From: Dave
I believe
altering scripture is blasfemy,,even pro wrestlers and austin
3 16 or other people mocking scripture;;but WE must LOVE the sinner
and Hate the sin . I agree with your article..in Christ
Dave
GOD
DID NOT ORCHESTRATE 9-11-01
Subject: Newsletter #29 _Revising.John_3_16
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001
From: Pam Dabon
I know that
my God is a God of love and would never have orchestrated or approved
of the 9-11-01 attack on America. I believe He loved us so much,
that not only did He originally send Jesus to save us, John 3:16,
but on 9-11 he sent America into action, saving and helping one
another. In my heart I truly believe He has turned a horrific
terrorist attack into drawing Americans not only closer to one
another, but closer to Him. We all witnessed the attacks and the
people I know and associate with, did not blaspheme God for this,
but PRAYED to God for healing and for our President. No matter
what has become of our nation, what lifestyles people choose,
God still loves us! He is no respecter of persons, and we have
no right to judge others. That is God's job. Judge not lest ye
be judged. I thank God every day that He has chosen me for one
of His own.
God bless you all!
Pam
Response:
Thank you -David
REPENTING
Subject: Newsletter #29
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001
From: Liz Hunt
Hi David,
What have you got against repenting? We all grieve God in some
way or other, so why wouldn't we want to say we're sorry? I believe
that we, the Church, are the ones called to repentence (2 Chron.
7:14. if MY people ...). I don't believe we are called to point
our finger at "sinners" who are not believers. Jesus' example
was "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
Many blessings! --
Liz Hunt ps I'm from Canada
Response:
Repenting is good. It means "changing one's mind" in
Greek. -David
TRUTH
FROM NATIONAL TV
Subject: Newsletter #29
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001
From: "Kath
Re your last
one on "Does God hate USA." etc. God loves everyone, even murderers.
He died for everyone. He does not favour one nation over another.
He calls all people to respond to him in repentance and faith.
See the following message by Ann Graham for some wise perspective.
Kath Wells
DIFFERENT
INTOLLERANCE
Subject: Hollywood Jesus Newsletter
# 29
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001
From: Malisa
David,
I have seen the same intollerance but in a different way. I have
seen an attitude coming from some Christian fundamentalists that
says, we love our God in America and if you don't like it, go
back where you came from. They are trying to use a tension between
Islam and Christianity to purge others with non-Christian beliefs
from our home soil. What they miss, which seems terribly obvious,
is how much their thinking is like that of terrorists. Just like
the Jews who were dissapointed in Jesus because he did not lead
them in a military triumph over the Romans, these Christian fundamentalists
seem to want to use political activities to create advantages
for God's kingdom. But we know that Jesus taught us that God's
work is done in the hearts of individuals, person to person, and
His plan is not to further His purposes through large-scale political
posturing.
The way our
politicans throw around "God bless America" annoyed me during
the Bush I term and now annoys me again during the Bush II era.
What is the implication there? Do we not want God to bless our
whole world? Does this statement imply God bless our country but
no one else's? Are our political leaders so close to God's word
and so filled with His spirit that they are comfortable standing
before the world and saying that God has given his overt approval
on all decisions that leader's government has made? That they
would be that confident of God's approval seems unlikely to me.
It's sad that such a wonderful phrase seems to carry with it,
especially now, undertones of racisim and bigotry.
Am I way off
base here? Have you ever read the magazine the World? It carries
these kinds of ideas, and also is not very well written.
Malisa
Response:
World magazine scares me. I find it very hard to read. I will
never forget their attack on the NIV inclusive Bible -it was very
unfair. In terms of the use of "God" in political statements
--very tricky. But, I think it is fair to say that God did not
like the evil that happened to the thousands of innocent people
in the WTC 9-11. And, I think it is fair to say "God bless
America", as long as one can also say "God bless the
world." "For God so loved the world that He gave..."
-David
SEPT
11 -AN ACT OF JUDGEMENT
Subject: Newsletter_29_God_Is_Judging
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001
From: "John Pavelko"
I have never,
ever considered myself in the same camp with Falwell yet I agree
that Sept 11 was indeed an act of judgment. In your shock over
this possibility how do you avoid the implications of Habbakkuk,
or even John the Baptist message that a winnowing fork is in his
hand? To limit either just to the historical nation of Israel
distorts Paul's image of the Church as the New Israel.
The question
that is than raised why? To answer the question I look to the
symbols of the buildings struck. The WTC represents Western materialism
and the Pentagon, military power. America and even, or should
I say especially the Church relies on both more than it relies
on its God. Why did God act in judgment upon America, for its
idolatry.
If you remain
uncomfortable with this idea, then you must answer why wouldn't
God judge America. In your shock over the possibility you fail
to provide an rebuttal.
Before I end,
however, let me say that I am not apart of the pre-trib, pre-mil
camp that seems to revel in the coming judgment upon America because
they believe that they will escape in the nick of time. We are
very close to an economic, political and environmental catastrophe
and I am not looking forward to having to maintain a witness of
hope amongst the chaos. Yet, I do know that it is during such
times that people do come to faith and the Church becomes stronger
as it passes through the refiner's fire.
John H. Pavelko
Wixom, MI
Response:
Thanks John for your thoughts. America is strong, and I do not
believe that it is "very close to an economic, political
and environmental catastrophe." Please read your words again
one year from now. This is a passing event, like so many others
that happen from time to time since the beginning of history.
The American idea of freedom is having a world wide impact. I
am sorry that you feel America needs a God that would kill thousands
of everyday innocent people to because of "idolatry"
on the part of other Americans. What kind of God is that? And
how is it that you have such insight into God that you know that
the WTC 9-11 terrorist attack is God's judgment for "idolatry."
Did God speak this to you? Did God write this on your bedroom
wall? To me it is dangerous to speak for God in the way you are.
I would rather focus on "even though I walk through the valley
of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, because you are with
me." -David
Continued
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