|
BULLETIN
BOARD
Email
your response
COMMENT
Subject: Newsletter_29 Revising
John_3_16
Good article Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: "Brian Terrell"
Good article.
I appreciate your words and thoughts, but I have one complaint.
I agree there have been some in the Christian community who have
wrongfully claimed to know the mind of God and my complaint is
not with that subject. At one point in the article I felt as if
you were "name-calling," specifically when Jerry Falwell was referred
to as "Jerry Falafel." I later realized it must be an over anxious
spellchecker as the long-expected collapse of the computer age,
Y2K, became "YAK" and Focus on the Family's host went from Dobson
to "Doubloon" and the Southern Baptist professor and scholar on
Islam, George Braswell, became "George Brawl." Might want to double
check the spellchecker.
Brian Terrell
Response:
Yes indeed. Sometimes the Spell Checker is not a good friend.
Thanks, David
GOD'S
PROTECTIVE HAND HAS BEEN TAKEN AWAY
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: "Mark Campbell"
The events
of September 11 have understandably caused great depths of feeling
in the Christian community. But, as with so many issues today,
there is more going on here than simply Good vs Evil. Some see
bin Laden is a pawn of Satan out to attack a tolerant and just
America. Others see the Godless America being attacked by a man
who is effectively the agent of God himself. But can these be
the only two possibilities?
I don't believe
so. A third possibility - and I'm sure, if you looked deeply enough,
there are others - is that over time America has turned away from
God, letting the Lord's protecting hand move away from the country.
(This is a fault of the society itself - a society consisting
of individual people, you and me - and not of any specific group
or groups.) When God's protective hand has lifted from something
or someone - be it from a country, a church or a person - then
that entity is subject to the World, and all that goes with it.
They are no longer under God's protection.
Bin Laden
is an evil man, an amoral terrorist of the highest order, and
it's scarcely feasible that he could be considered an agent of
God. He is not God's punishment on America - he is an example
of what happens when God's protection is lifted. There is a huge
difference. God does not control the Al Qaeda network (I don't
believe he controls any terrorist groups, come to that) but the
actions of that organisation are undoubtedly going to cause more
harm if God's protection is no longer there.
The September
11 attack was not God's punishment. It was a consequence of a
country that has turned its back on Him. As the 'planes hit the
two towers on that bright Tuesday morning, I believe God was in
the depths of despair at Man's inhumanity to Man, He was mourning
real tears over the huge loss of life and of the terrible chain
of events that it would initiate. The last thing in the world
He wanted to see was this terrible tragedy happening to America
- or anywhere else, for that matter. But like a responsible father,
He knew that sometimes a child has to experience the outcome of
its wayward behaviour. However harrowing and painful this might
be.
Mark Campbell
Response:
The response of Americans after 9-11 was anything but Godless.
I see signs everywhere saying "God Bless America." Churches
were brim full. There were prayer services everywhere. Even huge
ones -like the one in Yankee Stadium. Billy Graham was asked to
preach in the National Cathedral to a room filled with elected
officials from Congress, the Senate and the Presidency. America
is not a Godless society. In Europe less that 1% attend Church.
In America we have mega churches with thousands attending weekly.
I totally disagree with your premise. If you where right Sweden,
Denmark, France, England, Germany would have long since disappeared.
In Islamic countries it is against the law to mention Jesus. Why
doesn't God destroy them? Oh but America is some how different
and so God allows the destruction of the WTC by taking his hand
of protection away from it. If that where true why has there not
been greater evils since? I hate to say it but you have been given
a bill of goods. There are lots of "ministries" out
there that find great financial reward in blasting America. They
love to quote 2 Chronicles 7:14:
If
my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves,
and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways;
then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and
will heal their land.
Notice
however, this is addressed to God's people (believers) not nonbelievers.
It is not appropriate to use such passages to condemn America.
We are a diverse people and very different from the theocracy
of ancient Israel. Apples and oranges. Christians need to start
with themselves, and not with outsiders. God is judging the church
not the world -that's future. We need to do something about the
false prophets and profiteers among us. Here are three very good
verses from the New Living Bible:
Genesis
18:32 Finally, Abraham said, "Lord, please do not get angry;
I will speak but once more! Suppose only ten (righteous people)
are found there (Sodom)?" And the Lord said, "Then, for the
sake of the ten, I will not destroy it." (So why would God
act any different toward America, God is gracious).
2
Peter 3:9 The Lord isn't really being slow about his promise
to return, as some people think. No, he is being patient for
your sake. He does not want anyone to perish, so he is giving
more time for everyone to repent.
1
Cor. 5:12-13 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders,
but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church
who are sinning in these ways. God will judge those on the outside;
but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person
from among you." (Yet daily we hear certain Christians
in the media judging the world, this needs to stop. It needs
to stop now. We come off as so self righteous and heartless.
May God forgive us).
Thank
you for writing and sharing your thoughts. I appreciate that.
-David
PROFESSOR'S
ARTICLE
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Bradley
FYI: A professor
of mine from seminary has written a great article on how Christians
should respond to the attack on 9.11.01 that you might find interesting
and worth passing on to your readers. I enjoy your insights and
comments and thought you might want to get some input from this
source that I include for you below.
Thanks.
Bradley Aucoin
Comfort Within
the Boundaries: Finding One's Voice Regarding Evil [Robert Pyne]
http://www.probe.org/docs/comfort.html
The terrorist attacks in New York City and in Washington, D.C.
left many of us with more questions than answers. Pastors, teachers,
and counselors may have an especially difficult time as they attempt
to help others while still processing the news themselves. For
this reason, the author, a seminary professor who has studied
the problem of evil in depth, has prepared these comments as a
service to the shepherds.
Response:
Thanks for the good words. -David
BIBLICAL
STUDY ON THE "JUDGMENT OF GOD"
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Doug
Hollywood
Jesus
I did a quick study on the "judgment of God" following the attack
- wish I had my notes to state my thinking using Biblical texts.
But in general, the judgment of God falls on the righteous to
turn them to repentence. So if Falwell and others are considering
that this is the judgment of God, it is not falling on 'others'
but on 'them' for failing to do the will of God. While there are
instances in the old testament of the judgment falling on the
wicked, the other meaning is more common.
Second, Malachi
says that before Christ comes the second time he will send Elijah
the prophet (see Malachi 4:5-6). The role of Elijah is to "turn
the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children
to their fathers." In other words, the role of Elijah is to restore
broken relationships between earthly fathers and their children,
between the heavenly Father and His children, and, by further
implication, to restore relationships between all people. America's
'father' is England, with America the rebellious child, but not
only that, America is the child of all nations and can look to
all nations as playing part of the father role to us. God's purposes
are to restore relationships between all his children on earth.
If we have
an attitude of "God is punishing them for being wicked" then we
remove ourselves from others - we stand in judgement against them
- we don't reach out to them because "they are bad." If we have
an attitude of love and reconciliation we draw all people to us
- we make ourselves available to all people - it's up to them
whether or not to respond. If anything, we are to have a judgment
of love and respect for all people, not of condemnation.
Response:
Thank you I apprecate your research. I hope many will take notice.
-David
I
SAY LET'S GET BEYOND FUNDAMENTALISM AND GET BACK TO THE LOVE OF
GOD
Subject: Newsletter_29_I_Like_Jesus_But_Not_Fundamentalism
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: Gloria Lee Young
These extremests
be they Fundamentalists of either the Christian or Muslum persuasian
are just that extremeists and bound by the Law. They are waging
their own war in the media and giving each other what they want
"A Holy War" really you've got to be kidding it is and always
has been an "Unholy War" I aggree with David's coments and was
really surprised to hear his views were so much like mine
Gloria Lee Young
Response:
Thanks for you comments. It is an unholy war, indeed. -David
GOD
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001
From: Danny
Thank you
for so much informative stuff. I really enjoy your newsletter.
Keep up the great work. I'm really getting tired of people trying
to use the 9/11 attack on America as an excuse to vent their own
particular fears, prejudices, despair and angst. A sick and twisted
man with a distored view of reality, a man with nothing better
to spend his billions on than the destruction of a free nation--that's
the issue. Not God, not judgment, not the ACLU (although they
are anything but American), not the pornographers and every other
slime that permeate our society, but a man on the level with Adolph
Hitler; pure evil. Simple, isn't it.
Response:
Thanks for you comments. -David
TRULY,
I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN TO LISTEN TO THES PREDICTIONS
Subject: Newsletter_29_Feedup_with_Dooms_Day_Predictions
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: Gloria
We should
be focusing on the Love of God and Trusting Him to care for us
Jeramiah 29:11-13 kind of sums it up,We are in God thoughts and
he is here to give us a future and a hope.We need to be brought
out fundamental bondage and into The Love Of God. God speaking
to John to the Christians said in John 3:16 If we confess our
sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse
us fro all unrighteousness. To the fundamentalists I say what
the next scripture says, remember now all-though this is often
used as a soul winning scripture. If we say we haved not sinned
we make Him a liar(Jesus) and His word is not in us. My God The
Father of all is a God of Love and Grace and Compassion and He
is Sovereign and another thing it says in the word"Perfect Love
casteth out all fear" Who is perfect Love but our God..
Gloria
JOHN
3:16 AND "DOOMSDAYERS"
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: "Chris Weigel"
Some thoughts,
First, I enjoy the newsletter, by and large. With respect to the
revisiting of Jn 3:16 and the "doomsdayers": I don't tend to listen
to them much, lots of heat and little light. But with regard to
the judgment of God on our nation, don't dismiss the concept out
of hand. Remember that God's people in the Old Testament were
continually judged by God and he didn't hesitate to use His and
their enemies as the chastening tool. They too could be heard
saying "God can't possibly be using His enemies to judge us."
How wrong they were. Is the WTC bombing a direct judgment of God
on us for our abandoning certain values? Probably not. Does God
allow and use all for His purposes? Absolutely. Last thought:
while attempts at humor are good, don't lower yourself to taking
cheap shops at brothers in Christ by name calling...Jerry Falafel...please.
It's neither constructive nor Christlike.
Take the high road.
Chris Weigel
Response:
"Falafel" was an unintended error. The spell checker
changed it and I was not paying close attention. You will note
that that error does not appear above. I agree that name calling
is not a Christ like thing to do. Beyond this, there is no way
that God is involved in the slaughter of those precious and innocent
people in the WTC. God has better ways of getting our attention.
America is a great nation. -David
MY
THOUGHTS
Subject: Newsletter_29 Revising
John 3:16
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 23:08:56 EST
From: John Paul Landry
Dear Mr. Bruce,
My thought on the subject is as follows. I simply agree. I was
insulted by the thoughts of the 900 or 700 or 1100 club. Whatever
it is. I was also questioned to the point of being verbally abused
at my own church by a generation younger than myself. I brought
an article from the religion section of my newspaper to church
to see if my sunday school class agreed or disagreed. They unanimously
agreed. The title of the article was "Jesus taught his disciples
to undermind violence." The article from the Dallas Morning New
in Texas, discussed what Jesus' thoughts from the bible were of
violence. It was fascinating. Are we not Christians? Jesus' message
was "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass
againsts us." I also would like to voice that I heavily disagreed
with the U.S bombing Afghanistan on World Communion Day in the
United Methodist Church. I being Methodist know that communion
was being shared world wide with fellow christians and found it
hard to believe that we could attack another country on the Lords
day. I hope my thoughts don't arouse too much hatred. I just want
to encourage you to keep writing your opinions cause there are
people who will agree with you. I mean the Jesus I know would!!
Blessings In Christ
John Paul Landry ><>
Response:
Thank you. -David
SEE
WE TOLD YOU SO
Subject: Newsletter_29_God_Is_Judging
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: Tillie S
I don't know
if God is judging America per se, but I do know that God used
pagan nations to punish His children in the Old Testament, and
that we are warned that what is written in the Old Testament is
written for our warning. There have been plenty of Christians
afraid of God's judgment on America if we don't repent, and have
quoted 2 Chronicles 7:14 as the basis for their fear. So when
this happened, it follows that they would say, "See?? We told
you so."
Tillie S
Response:
Isn't 1 Chronicles 7:14 asking the people of God to repent? It
has little to do with "non-believers" in America. "Judgement
begins in the house of the Lord" -not at the World Trade
Center. Again Jesus said, "God didn't go to all the trouble
of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling
the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right
again." -David.
THE
NAYSAYERS AND HOW THEIR WORDS HURT GOD
Subject: Newsletter_29 Revising
John 3:16
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Wilson Kriston
Hi David,
It is a long time since I have written. I read your recent newsletter
with the utmost interest and I do believe that God is not judging
America.
I do heard
some people say that if God do not judge America, He should also
apologise to Sodom and Gomorrah. This goes to show how shallow
is their understanding of God's love for this world.
I also agree
with you the extent of God's love for this world so much so that
He gave His one and only, precious and priceless Son to us sinners
as evidently pointed out in John 3:16. Another way to see God's
love is how we should see the old testament's account on the destruction
of Sodom.
As we read
through the Bible, God promised Abraham that He will spare the
city if there's at least 10 righteous men in the city. TEN righteous
men out of the potential thousands of inhibitants and less than
1% of the whole city population!
God is so
gracious to the people of Sodom then, why should He be different
now? Of course, the city is so wicked that only Lot was found
to be righteous with God and so is his family. Even then, angels
are sent to rescue them before the impending judgement.
Brother David,
I sincerely believe that there are much more 'righteous' brothers
and sisters in Christ in New York than in Sodom. And I will believe
without regrets that God will keep all of us in safety during
this period of great shaking.
And I would
also appeal to those fellow Christians who speaks without thinking
about God's goodness. Have they heard about the rescue efforts
of Angels? I read some, heard some and even seen the interview
of some on TV. If God is truly judging America would He sent His
angels to do all these? And what kind of God do we have if He
decided to punish and yet rescue us?
I believe
that the judgement has not yet come. If God wants to judge, it
will be much much more horrific than this (please read revelation)
and there would not be a New York City standing if this is so.
It is our Blessed Hope that we shall see God's face before His
impending judgement on the world and not just a city of the world.
My last comment
to Christians who misunderstood God. Give a thought to those Christians
who lost their loved ones, are they blaming God? Is it fair? I
don't think so because it is not God who execute this because
I know God is fair and loving. Only someone who do not know God
will blame God for all these. And i sincerely feel that Osama
is wrong about his works for his god and it is clearly not the
god of Koran nor the Good Book.
In His Grace and Mercy Everyday
Wilson Kriston
Response:Thanks
for your thoughts. I appreciate your time and thoughts. -David
CHRISTIANS
HURT THE CAUSE OF CHRIST
Subject: Newsletter_29_Feedup_with_Dooms_Day_Predictions
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: BKilmer
Dear David,
I agree with what you said:
"There
are two ways to look at pop culture and current events. 1. While
aware of evil and its consequences, keeping the focus for what
is noble and good (Phil 4:8). -This is the approach I use in
HJ.. 2. Disregarding the positive aspects and ever focusing
on what's evil and wrong. -This latter approach has possessed
the Evangelical Fundamentalist Christian community by and large
-I am very sorrowful about this, because I consider myself an
Evangelical -although I, with Billy Graham, do not consider
myself a Christian Fundamentalist."
I believe
as as Christians we should expect the world to have much evil.
We should
rejoice over the good that is evident in the world, and know that
if we could trace back to the source of any good, it would be
God.
Like Jesus,
we should not force our morals nor our Christianity on anyone.
Thanks for your insights.
Bruce Kilmer
Mt. Pleasant, MI
Response:Thanks
for your thoughts. Love is always the better path. -David
READ
DEUTERONOMY 28
Subject: Newsletter_29 Revising
John 3:16
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: Lee
Read Deuteronomy
28. The answer is in this scripture.
Lee
Response:
So are you saying America is cursed? Are you putting Deut 28:15-68
in the mouth of God as a judgment on America? Well, if God has
cursed America -then there is no hope -America will fall. Are
you agreeing with Bin Lauden? For me America is about freedom
of thought, religion, and lifestyle. God is not judging America.
I am glad to be an American! -David
KOOKS
ARE STILL LISTENED TO!
Subject: Feedup_with_Dooms_Day_Predictions_Newsletter_29
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: Norm
Isn't it
amazing that these kooks are still listened to, though throughout
history that have never yet been right. Doomsday - end of world
predictions have been wrong 100%, and yet Hal Lindsey still manages
to sell books.
NIRVANA!
Subject: Newsletter_29 Revising
John 3:16
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: Harsts
yeah ungodly
rock song nirvana!
POLLYANNA
VIEW OF GOSPEL MESSAGE
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: Mark
David, just
how is God, according to the Bible, going to "put the world right
again" ? Destruction of this earth is inevitable. Many of the
"good people of New York" will not be saved from this destruction.
Yes God loves the world, but he does hate the condition it is
now in. Having said this, I can agree with you on some of your
points. I do feel ; however, that your position toward people
who are not Christians is more destructive than finger pointing.
People need to hear the good news of the Cross. But they need
to hear it in truth. They have to believe in the current condition
of man in order to believe in the truth that the Cross brings.
What good does it do a person to go through life believing that
being "a good person" is enough to save them? The Bible is very
clear that no one is good without Christ. Christians should not
use the tragedy of 9-11 to pronounce God's wrath on America. This
is wrong and it harms the body of Christ. Love is the message
that Christians should bring to the world. But love without truth
us not love.
Mark HE. mhnash_99@yahoo.com
SPELL-CHECK
STRIKES AGAIN
Subject: Newsletter_29 Revising
John 3:16
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: "CB"
David, It
appears that you used MS Word's spell-check utility to proof the
below newsletter, and it changed certain words, such as Falwell
to Falafel. Sadly, Word is horrible about this kind of unasked
behavior. I'm sure someone has notified you of this, but I thought
I'd do my duty and let you know as well. By the way, I agree with
all you said, and thoroughly enjoy the web site and the ministry
it brings about.
Thanks. CB
Response:
Yes, and Y2K was altered to YAK! Oh well, thanks. -David
Back
to Main Page of Newsletter #29
|
