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STRANGE LIBERTIES
Subject: Newsletter_25
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001
From: Rob Newsletter_25
Bruce, The
list was quite complete, although some of those films were just
atrocious. Like The Judas Project -- horrid movie. Also I was
surprised that Omen 4 made it. Interesting movie, and a pretty
good conclusion to the series, but there were some strange liberties
taken, don't you think?
Response:
Actually yes. But, I wanted to include a very wide range of all
types. From secular R-rated to Independent Christian made film
like Omega Code. I put OMEN in because one of the consultants
on the film was Jess Moody, who was the Pastor of Van Nuys First
Baptist Church at that time. I just wanted to tip my hat to the
producers for including an Evangelical pastor. In fact he wrote
the closing lines in OMEN 1. So OMEN was included for personal
reasons. Besides, I think the OMEN series was a lot better than
the OMEDA CODE. Maybe I should do another 100 list of obviously
faith friendly films.
WHY
CHRISTIAN JUDGES
Subject: Newsletter_25
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001
From: JMP
I believe
that most of us are negative and fearful about things we don't
understand. There is a gap between Boomers, Busters and Gen X
& Y and unless understanding continues, gaps will not be bridged.
I think the
biggest gap today is the fact that most people, especially Christians,
approach our society as an "immoral" society. I believe the truth
is that we are not a moral or immoral society, but an a-moral
society, meaning there is no right and wrong, there is no black
and white and young people who are looking for values don't have
any tools by which to figure it all out.
So, a boomer
raised on some similance of values doesn't understand why Gen
X & Y, etc, would bash Christians in the media. Maybe there is
a lot of Christian Bashing but this is because for most people
nothing is holy, everything is stained. I hear a hint of disdain
in the commentators voice towards the Boomer Pastor - but you
need to recognize that he may be viewing our society as an "immoral"
society versus an amoral society and thats not totally his fault.
It would do him and all of us a lot of good to understand and
truly discern the times, though. (I like what
you are sayind -David)
I
recommend everyone read the book Virtual Faith. (Good
book) I don't remember the authors name (Tom
Beaudoin, Harvey Cox), but it gives some helpful insights
on how these coming generations view spirituality, (even talking
about tatoos and body piercing) and that media has a major role
in this spiritual quest. This is what raised and babysat younger
generations and that's all I'll say about the book. Just read
it...great stuff.
I'm not a
boomer or a buster and I wouldn't categorize me as Gen X though
others would, but I will say that my desire is much like Davids,
who said, he would continue to declare God's power, love, and
presence even until he was oold and gray until the next generation
understood God. It's all about understanding..... God have mercy
on us all.
JMP
Response:
Thanks JMP for giving insight into your generation. I put a link
to the book. I hope many will take the time to check it out.
JUST
A THOUGHT
Subject: Newsletter_25
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001
From: "Glenn Teal"
As the prototypical
person whom you describe as one of the hostage takers (A 49 year
old male pastor) I have a few comments. First of all we don't
all have a knee jerk reaction against Hollywood. I consider myself
a minor film buff, fan of Roger Ebert's film criticism and regular
movie goer. I guess I'm an exception (along with the several other
pastors I know who would qualify).
Second many
of Hollywood's portrayals of people of faith have been very negative.
From Elmer Gantry to the pastor father in Footloose. Christian
ministers are often bad guys. Roger Ebert's critique of Chocolat
was insightful -- would Hollywood have produced the movie if the
narrow-minded villains were pagans and the joyous heroine was
a Christian?
Third some
Hollywood movies not all are unnecessarily violent and or sexually
explicit. Did Amanda Peet have to be topless to shoot up the bad
guys in "The Whole Nine Yards"? Isn't there is a time and place
to warn Christians that exposure to visual images that are demeaning
or overly erotic can be damaging to the soul?
Fourth (and
finally) the generation before the Boomers taught us that Hollywood
in particular and the entertainment industry in general were evil.
Although they were only partly right -- sometimes they get it
right as you point out -- the idea stuck.
Glenn H. Teal ghteal@msn.com
www.excitingchurch.com
Response:
1. I was a Boomer pastor, too. Most of my pastoral Boomer peers
viewed film all the time, but seldom made preference to them.
The Boomers are not a very intregated lot.
2. Hollywood is pagan, but nonetheless targets universal appeal.
3. This is what Christian reviewers do ALL the time (except HJ).
Christian "reviewers" overdo it. Lots about bare breast
warnings, and little about redemptive analogies. It's another
knee jerk reaction. BTW does not looking at Amanda Peet's naked
breasts make me a better Christian? I have never read anything
in the Bible remotely close to that. If I understand the Roman
world, naked images where all over the place in Paul's day, especially
erect naked penises. Yet not a word about it in Scripture. Why
is that? Haven't you ever wondered about that? Bare breasts, public
baths and naked statues were the cultural norm back then. Yet,
Paul issued no specific warnings against it. Why? Further
the pagan world of the New Testament era was very pornographic.
A fact that was never brought up by to me in Seminary or in any
Bible Study I have ever attended. Why the silence? The early Jewish
Christians had so much trouble accepting Gentiles into the early
Church because of moralistic concerns. The uncircumcised Gentiles
won. The world is won through conversion, not through moral reform
of moralistic warnings. I know I have a very different view than
most -but, I truly believe a moralistic (works-based) approach
to reform is just so very dead wrong, sinful and totally unbiblical.
We are in the world, just not of it. "Go ye into all the
world... be salt and light." Simple. And if you see Amanda's
breasts in the process, so what?
4. The salt and light concept is lost. The reason culture is polluted
is because Christians refuse to be salt and light. Where are the
great 21st century Christian artists, film producers, actors,
writers, movers and shakers -they are far and few between. -You
get the point. Christians refuse to enter into culture (for moralistic
reasons) and then throw rocks at it. This is the typical WW2 generation
(Builders) approach. The Boomers bought into it. We need to repent
of this horrible evil wicked sin. We need to be Roaring Lambs.
Thanks you for your input. I enjoyed responding to you. -David
DRIVEN
BY WHAT?
Subject: Newsletter_25
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001
From: "Glenn Teal"
Clearly the
reviewer of Driven has a mad on about some church leaders somewhere.
Why this movie becomes an allegory of the boomer dominance in
church leadership is beyond me. OK so there is a lesson to be
learned in older generations coming to terms with the passing
of leadership to younger generations -- but you would have been
better off reviewing the movie not just venting your frustrations.
Glenn H. Teal ghteal@msn.com
www.excitingchurch.com
Response:
The film struck truth for me. For me, it reflected what needs
to happen in Church culture. There are so few voices for Gen X
and Y, so as a Boomer I will do what I can to give them their
rightful place. In terms of reviews, HJ reviews are unique and
unpredictable. Movies furnish perfect opportunities to vent frustrations
by the way. It is part of what art is all about. Thank you for
your comments, I always enjoy a challenge. -David
CHRISTIANS
AND HOLLYWOOD
Subject: Newsletter_25
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001
From: "Robert Askren"
You make a
good point about the film industry. Some people want to only think
in narrow, black and white chiche's. Christian existenialists
can see the themes in secular movies, like courage, grace, mercy,
loyalty, sacrifice, mercy, and hope. I have found religious value
in many secular films just as you have. Religious myth is dominant
in Star Wars Trilogy for instance.
Thanks for listening.
The Rev. Robert D. Askren
Response:
For me the choice is simple: Hollywood movies or over priced "Christian"
paintings by Thomas Kinkade. Hmm. Easy choice. There is little
to equal Star Wars in the typical Christian book store in terms
of substance and cultural connection. Thank you Robert for your
good words. There is something radically amiss in the Christian
community. There is a disturbance in the force. -David
P.S. from
Rev. Robert D. Askren
Have you seen the film with George Lucas and Bill Moyers discussing,
"The Mythology of Star Wars"? Amazon.com has it available.
Sincerely, Robert
THANKS
DAVID!
Subject: Newsletter_25
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001
From: shr
i'm a gen
X-er. thanks so much for your "formal" apology. it sounds like
it was written by an X-er! we love you guys and admire you guys,
but you really are power-grubbing and don't know how to pass the
torch along! y'all learned how to use the political system and
failed to teach us even the rudimentaries of government in school.
ya know? thanks for your awareness of our plight. i, for my part,
pledge not to be a whiney, gen-X victim. deal?
peace in Jesus, shr
Response:
It's a deal. And I will continue to do my best in getting Boomers
to NOT have their Eyes Wide Shut. I am an X-er at heart: this
is why Hollywood Jesus is so different then other Christian site.
Thank you for your kind words. -David
FAITH
AFFIRMING FILMS
Subject: Faith Affirming Films
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001
From: "Mark Gosling"
David's
comments are in blue
David, You
wrote: "Here is the question: Why do Christians have such negative
knee jerk reactions to the culture. Why can't we seem to build
bridges. Why are we so hesitant to give credit when it is due?
Why can't Christians admit to common ground with unbelievers?"
Perhaps they
are considering the import of verses such as these:
Romans 12:1-2 ...Do not conform any longer to the pattern
of this world...
2 Corinthians 6: 13-18 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers...
1 Timothy 6:10-12 For the love of money is a root of all
kinds of evil...
1 Thessalonians 5:21-23 ...Hold on to the good. Avoid every
kind of evil...
Psalm 1:1-3 Blessed is the man who does not walk in the
counsel of the wicked..
You raise
important issues with your question(s). Certainly all the abovementioned
biblical passages can be used and abused hypocritically, but they
must give believers pause for thought...
As to Faith
Affirming Films: If you exclude "biblical epics" from your "100
faith affirming films" you will have reduced your list considerably.
There are about 23 listed, but the were all
produced by secular Hollywood Studios. So they indeed do count.
What could be more relavant? You are up to a dismissal here Mark,
I can feel it coming.
I think the
pastor in question really meant "Hollywood never portrays EVANGELICAL
Christian believers favorably." While his use of the word "never"
was foolishness on his part, (cf The Apostle, Tender Mercies,
Places in the Heart, The Trip to Bountiful - funny how they all
take place in the cultural milieu of the South) Yes,
the use of "never" was a problem. I did not list 2 of
the films you mentioned. Thank you for the additions. Other Southern
Christian films include, The Eyes of Tammy Faye, George Wallace,
and The Blood of Jesus. But there are 35 films in my list (not
counting the biblical epics) that spefically portray evangelical
Christians in a good light -that's a good number -and most are
not in the South, consider Shadowlands -about C.S. Lewis, Chariots
of Fire -about a British Evangelical missionary, The Sound of
Music -about a wonderful overseas Christian woman, Proof of Life
-with a wonderful portrayal of a foreign evangelical missionary,
for examples.
the thrust
of his argument is basically correct, considering the number of
movies produced each year, the number of anti-Christian sentiments
and values expressed in them and the number of unfavourable portrayals
of evangelicals, charismatics, and fundamentalists that occur.
I disagree here, although there are certainly
non-Christian points of view presented frequently in secular films
(to be excepted), this is not the same as unfavorable portrayals
of Christians. Hollywood wants to sell tickets, not drive away
audiences. It's a matter of money. Ticket money speaks.
Contrast this
with the sizable percentage of the American population who identify
themselves as "born again Christians"... Indeed few of your listed
films are actually portraying evangelical Christians in a positive
light. Not so. (The Big Kahuna for example
comes close and I know virtually every Christian critic swooned
over it; but to me there was an angry subtext about hypocrisy
which equated sharing the gospel with selling a product). Your
mention of The Big Kahuna seems to be for reasons of dismissal.
But, as you note you are at odds with "every Christian reviewer."
And, you avoided a film like Simon Birch -where Jim Carrey opens
the film by saying "He is the reason why I believe in God."
Or, 28 Days -which has Sandra Bullock trusting God for her sobriety.
Or, Bless the Child and Lost Souls -both are very favorable to
Evangelical believers. Or, Here On Earth -which begins with an
Evangelical minister preaching a sermon that becomes the basis
for the plot, and what about The Replacements and films like it
that have positive portrayals of Evangleicals in lesser roles,
etc.
But then again
Hollywood doesn't produce any anti-abortion films, or anti-homosexuality
films, or any pro-Republican films either. And often the sizable
constituency of Americans who share these views overlaps. So someone
somewhere among the cultural elite is freezing out the views of
a sizable proportion of the American population in favour of politically-correct,
liberal elitist ideas. Now you have moved into
a different area. Politics. There are liberal Christians. Not
all Christians agree on the areas you now bring up. This is removed
from the original point.
As to my nomination
for one of the most offensive ant-Christian films of recent times
I would have to say that honour would go to "Pleasantville", one
of the most subversive attacks on Christian values presented in
a high quality movie. (And some Christians
consider this a highly spiritual film)
Mark Gosling
Mark,
I must say, you too have a hard time in finding the common ground.
You basically dismissed secular Hollywood categorically. Your
shift to political issues speaks for itself. Black American Evangelicals
are mostly Democratic. You seem to have a Right Wing Republican
White Anglo Saxon Jesus. Hollywood films offer a great common
meeting ground within our culture. You can literally sit down
with a total stranger and discuss Star Wars. What a great opportunity.
Such a conversation feeds very well into a discussion about God.
And yet there is however, not a single Evangelical Christian in
the film. There does not need to be. Hollywood movies are the
only popular common mythology we have in our culture. Throw rocks
if you want. Cry that Hollywood is liberal, unchristian, Democratic,
biased, anti-Evangelical, or what ever. As for me, I will seize
the moment as I have done in Hollywood Jesus. I love it. By the
way, Mark, the only reason why Hollywood is so secular, is because
of the wholesale rejection of the entire industry by Christians.
There is no salt and light in Hollywood, and that ain't Hollywood's
fault. It the fault of the rock throwing puritanical squeaky clean
Evangelical Church. Believe me Mark, God is not happy. -David
WHEN
CHURCH/RELIGION NOT POSITIVE
Subject: Newsletter_25
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001
From: Darrel Manson
While I agree
with you that there are many films that treat religion and people
of faith positively, it is important to note that it isn't always
so. This is not to make the typical knee jerk reaction and blast
Hollywood over the way they treat us. Rather we do need to look
at those less than positive portrayals because they often are
merely a mirror we don't want to look into.
The way the
church is portrayed in "Dogma" or "Breaking the Waves" may seem
negative to some (and indeed, I find the indictment of the church
in Breaking the Waves very strong and devastating), but they are
based on ways that people do experience the church. In literature
this is also seen in the novel "Elmer Gantry". Elmer isn't a typical
pastor. But as a pastor I know that there is a little bit of Elmer
in all of us. People weren't offended by Sinclair Lewis because
the book wasn't true; they were offended because they knew it
was.
These negative
portrayals of religion are just as valuable as the positive ones.
-- Darrel Manson ><>
Artesia Christian Church
ICQ 5624184 ><>Artesia, CA
http://netministries.org/see/churches/ch01198
When I see things through my eyes, I see things. -Angelo Dundee
Response:
You are so right. Sinclair Lewis, becomes in some sense a prophet!
-David
BABY
BOOMERS AND GEN XERS
Subject: Newsletter 25
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001
From: "Mark Gosling"
David, Thank
you for your provocative article On Baby Boomers and Gen Xers.
You make a number of valid points but could I just add a couple
of comments?
The Baby Boomer
generation of Christians has obviously demonstrated the age old
problem of the Church being held captive to the world - to the
values and attitudes of the surrounding culture - rather than
occupying the more scriptural position (in my opinion) of being
biblically countercultural and standing against prevailing fashions
and trends that compromise the gospel. (Of course there are good
things in all cultures that can be embraced and celebrated without
compromising our allegiance to the King of the universe. This
seems to be one of your major thrusts with "Hollywood Jesus"?)
And it is true we are all children of our age and should seek
to respond to God in a way that is relevant to our situation.
This dichotomy presents us with a delicate balancing act!
Gen Xers do
have a problem fitting into our churches. The problem is, with
regard to the Gen Xers you seem to be arguing that the church
should again become captive to a particular cultural and historical
phenomenon. We live in an age of rapid change Everything - values,
morals, beliefs, fashions, ideas, trends, truth itself is relative
and in a state of flux. What's in today, is out tomorrow. If we
make Gen Xer friendly churches what's the bet that in a couple
of years they have hardened into the latest orthodoxy?
If I may quote
W. B. Yeats:
Turning
and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
I also agree
with your concerns about the "idolatry" of worshipping "family
values", rather than Christ, but I would also point out that strong
intact families are very much countercultural to the prevailing
ethos of our age - as well as being very biblical. The Church
itself is, or should be, the family of God. Being a Christian
means being part of God's family; thus I would suggest that family
values are high on God's priorities. The covenant between husband
and wife, for example, is to serve as a model of the relationship
of Christ to the Church. Children raised in loving, committed
intact families are going to be nourished in a way that the children
of the fragmented households becoming dominant across Western
culture are not. As you passionately point out, however, it is
the duty of the Church (i.e. no abstract commodity, but real Christians
individually and collectively) to "get their hands dirty" and
reach out in love to the broken, sick and lost, whoever and wherever
they are.
Does every
new generation of Christians have to re-invent the wheel, or at
least rebuild the wheel in a way that's relevant to them? Yes...
and no. "Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever". External
trappings may change but the human condition and the divine answer
remains the same.
That twenty
centuries of stony sleep Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking
cradle And what rough beast, its hour come round at last Slouches
towards Bethlehem to be born? Thank you for your unique web site.
Mark Gosling
Response:
Yes, every generation grows old and finds change hard. The church
should always be evolving. If a young person does not have a personal
relation with God by the age of 18, there is an 85% chance they
never will. There is no more important group than children and
youth. Youth should always be included in the formation of worship.
If this were practiced in the church, change would happen very
naturally. As it is, Boomers will not permit it. Power and authority
are key with them. Power and authority correctly belong to Jesus,
who says "And a child shall lead them." -David
THERE
IS A DANGER
Subject: Newsletter_25
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001
From: Thomas Peck
Why do
Christians have such negative knee jerk reactions to the culture.
Why can't we seem to build bridges. Why are we so hesitant to
give credit when it is due? Why can't Christians admit to common
ground with unbelievers?
There is a
great danger that our faith and our walk with Christ can be co-opted
by the culture. We are warned in a number of verses (Jn.15:19
Rom.12:2 Col.3:2,5) about where we put our focus and our energies.
The issue is not the culture, but what is the effect on you and
your walk with Christ, your conforming yourself to Him, your obedience
to Him. So much in the culture will pull you away from Christ,
that it is important to be discerning about what we put in our
eyes and our minds and our hearts. Some may be able to not be
effected by the sin promoted in the culture, but, given our sinful
nature, it is often like an alcoholic hanging around in a bar...sooner
or later you will fall. Yes, we have common ground with unbelievers...we
are all sinners, but that does not mean we should take on the
ways of the sinner in order to better 'relate' to the sinner.
What we do need to do is practice more of the love defined in
1 Corinthians 13 and Romans 12, while still living a life that
honors Christ.
Response:
Well that was about as clear as mud. There are 3 basic views:
1. Christ in culture,
2. Christ beside (against) culture,
3. Christ above (uninvolved with) culture.
I go with number 1.
You seem to go with 2.
I am a "Go Ye into all the world" kind a guy that leans
heavily on the pagan altar to the Unknown God of Acts 17:16-34.
For me number 2 sounds too much like a hermit (unevangelical).
I am indeed the recovering alcoholic hanging in the bar helping
others. I resonate with Paul hangin with godless Gentiles, and
with Jesus hangin with harlots and sinners? I like my fingernails
dirty. I also like scars and blisters. Thank you for your point
of view. It was refreshingly different than mine. -David
BOOMERS
STEP ASIDE
Subject: Newsletter_25
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001
From: "Don Dawson"
An interesting
look at our seminaries across the nation shows some relevant info:
http://www.zondervanchurchsource.com/brfng.htm
Also, I am
a member of the Presbyterian Church (USA) and am a Gen Xer, and
I was disappointed (yet not surprised) to read earlier this year
that only 4% of the pastors in my denomination are under the age
of 40. My wife is one of them, and she found that her calling
is in campus ministry, not in a traditional parish.
We are still
active in a regular congregation, but it is very evident that
our needs and the needs of other Gen Xers are not top priority.
It's funny, but I hear more complaining about how no college-age
people come to our church from the people who are most against
changing the status quo.
I wonder how
the rest of the Protestant Church is doing. With stats like that,
it's hardly surprising that it's difficult to find many Gen Xers
in church.
The times
are changing, and you're on the right track. The Barna Group (www.barna.org)
just published results yesterday of a study on Internet use in
spiritual pursuits, and it is looking like more and more people
will be looking to the web for their spiritual nourishment.
Don Dawson
rocketsrus@netzero.net
Webmaster for http://palmbay.presbychurch.net
Response:
Thank you for the stats. It is a true thing, we have failed to
reach Gen X. I heard a report the other day on National Public
Radio that suggested that the Mormons could outnumber the Evangelicals
within the next 40 years. Per Capita American Church attendance
is no greater now than it was in 1940. The Evangelical Church
has a problem. -A major problem. I think the Builders and Boomer
are at the heart of it. And, I also blame the church for making
Family Values, and Republican Politics etc. it's goal rather than
Jesus. Something has gone terribly wrong. Outsiders, Outcasts,
Familyless, Goth, Rappers, Homeless, Gen X need not apply. You
are not truly welcome in most churches. -David
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