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BULLETIN BOARD
Note:
Comments on Left Behind posted here
PARADOX
Subject: Newsletter 21
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002
From: "Moo-ree"
David,
I have to wonder if religious people are targets of suspicion
for the very reason they are respected: conviction. One's convictions,
based on beliefs about God, man, sin, redemption are core to how
we live. Even if one is NOT religious, he or she has beliefs about
these core issues, even if they are counter to Biblical thought.
Religious convictions set up this paradox in that faith based
on evidence- note EVIDENCE and NOT proof-which for many seems
fuzzy and ethereal as opposed to being concrete and measurable.
If I live my life by the conviction that I am a sinner in need
of grace, then I will more than likely conduct myself with humility
and tell others of that grace that saves and restores me. My neighbor,
who may possess the opposite conviction ("I don't' need God I'm
my own person. I don't even think He exists"!)sees me as strange
and foreign. I become a target of suspicion because my motives
are "too good to be true" or completely incredible. Bridging the
gap takes time, sincerity, genuineness in relationship and prayer.
In The
Pledge, Jerry didn't have TIME to see if the fruit of the
pastor's life was good and real. He had a murderer to apprehend
before someone else was killed. Even as a Biblical Christian,
I've become increasingly suspect of much of evangelical Christianity
for the reasons I mentioned above. There is precious little honesty
and authenticity among those who claim to be believers. The fruit
is all too frequently bad or lacking and we won't admit to our
brothers and sisters that we are in desperate need of God's grace
even though we are already saved. Sean Penn's suspicion is a product
of who we are a society and of our personal tendency to distance
ourselves from a sovereign Creator who so dearly loves us. As
I get older, I realize all the more that the good we do is by
His grace and not of ourselves. We need to extend that grace to
others as we see failings and weakness, believer and unbeliever
alike. That conviction may get us into worldly trouble (by not
being suspicious enough or looking naïve) but that's where faith
comes in. Just some ideas,
Marie from Ohio
Response:
Thanks -David
The
main contradiction of religion in U.S. society
Subject: Newsletter 21
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001
From: Bruce Donaldson
Mr. Bruce,
I think the main contradiction of religion in U.S. society lies
in whether or not people perceive that religion is being "imposed"
upon them.
You can believe
what you want as long as your neighbor can believe what they want
and they don't sense any disapproval by you. Any time you begin
to apply your moral standards to someone else's life they get
a bit edgy...Especially if your are Christian and claiming exclusive
revelation and salvation.
I think this
is the phenomenon observed in your note about Bush trying to use
faith-based institutions to do the charity work in the United
States. No one wants the government endorsing or promoting a belief
that might convict them of their own righteousness, or lack thereof.
Especially after the leader of the country has so openly confessed
Christianity.
Another element
lies in the leftist/progressive mind that abhors any display of
religion that might take the power from the hands of the state
and give it to the citizens. One of the first steps communistic/socialistic
government take is to outlaw charity by its citizens. The state,
in the oppressors minds, is god and will supply all the needs
of it citizens -- as determined by its leaders.
Bruce Donaldson
El Segundo, CA
LOVE
HATE RELIGIOUS QUESTION
Subject:
Newsletter 21
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001
From: Genie
I think that
it has to do with the stance of the person. People who come from
more conservative backgrounds seem to be more likely to pick people
(like Ashcroft) whose religious views inhibit freedom for some.
(The abortion issue, for example, where we have people of good
Christian conscience on both sides of the issue.) People on the
liberal side are usually more tolerant of conservative views than
the other way around. The stricter interpreation of who is saved,
the more pressure on people to be "saved like me." Because, by
definition, only those who fit the conservative mold are "saved."
. . . At least in my experience.
WHY
THE CONFLICT?
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001
From: Darrel Manson
I think Chocolat
is a good place to look. I didn't read the book, but I understand
the movie toned down the church's part. In the movie the church
is merely wussy. In the book, the antagonist is priest rather
than mayor.
We want people
in public life to be religious, because we hope that some sort
of relationship with God will move those people to strive to act
out being in God's image - hence loving, caring and self-giving.
But we also understand how easily it is for the religious to become
like the Comte in Chocolat, trying to prove themselves worthy
of their position by enforcing their view of religion.
On the other
hand, I sometimes question whether we would really want someone
to truly live out their Christianity as President. Certainly it
was hard for many to stomach Jimmy Carter who tried to do so in
many ways. What would we do if a president turned the other cheek,
if the president took to heart the woes pronounced against the
rich and the full in the Sermon on the Plain in Luke 6? Face it,
we want even the religious leaders to be selective in when they
apply their religion to public policy. I guess in the end, we
want them to be religious, but just not really believe it.
-- Darrel Manson
><>Artesia Christian Church
Artesia, CA http://netministries.org/see/churches/ch01198
FUNDING
FOR FAITH GROUPS
Subject: Funding for Faith groups
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001
From: Margaret Forbes
Our founding
fathers were wise in insisting on separation of church and state.
Eighteenth century France was basically ruled by the Nobles and
the Church. The nobles were not the only group that got a short
haircut, bishops and archbishops did as well. Why? Because the
abused their power and used the fear of God to get their way.
Today we only have to look to the middle east to see what a theocracy
can do to civil law. As Christians we also tend to think of groups
of faith as Christian groups. Not so. Our tax money could also
go to any group that is a recognized faith. That includes Muslims,
Buddists, New Age, Bah'ai and Krishna's just to name the most
well known. We tend to think of our country as a "Christian" country,
and it's not. Our government protects our right to worship as
we please and WHOM we please. There are already some of my tax
dollars going to things I don't believe in. We don't need to add
more.
Margaret Forbes NRSMAGGIE@YAHOO.COM
FAITH
PARADOX
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: "Karen Igla"
In WORLD
magazine (January 27, 2001), Cal Thomas wrote an excellent article
addressing the question of why some praise the invocation of God
by some people and criticize others. Thomas reasoned that God
was not the object of fear. Rather, what is feared and rejected
are those whose faith actually drive their actions and policies.
Anyone can claim to be a Christian -- that is no threat. But one
who lives as a Christian, even as boldly as a lion, can set thousands
to trembling as they shake their fists in rancor. --Karen Igla
IT'S
WITH LIFE
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: Patti
Not just
extreme love/hate relationship w/religion--it's w/life! Oh, what
humans we be...know that we love you and include you in our prayers
dear friend.
patti
WHY
THE PARADOX?
Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: Thomas
Dear Bruce,
It is important to remember whom we are dealing with...sinners.
Inherent in each person is the fingerprint of God, so to speak,
because we were made in His image (Gen 1:27).
As one who
accepted the gift of salvation later on in life (37) after living
a basically agnostic life (I could take God or leave Him), there
was always an acute awareness of my own failings. No matter what
I did that was great it was always overshadowed by my failures
and shortcomings. Read the stories of so-called great figures
and they are either motivated or tortured by their failings.
I contend,
that because we ALL know we are imperfect, when someone acts in
perfection (i.e. righteousness) we are impressed and awed by that
action. That is the part the world loves and respects about Christianity
- the universal morals and love espoused.
What is often
seen are the visible hypocrisies and limitations by those who
profess this belief, who even have the audacity to proclaim that
there is only one way to achieve this righteousness (through Christ).
This is an affront to the concept that every-idea-is-equal philosophies
of the day (which are not new) and that there is some unfairness
in being held accountable because we are imperfect. There is no
recognition that we cannot be righteous ourselves. There is no
understanding of this without the Holy Spirit.
I remember
taking my son to elementary school one morning and we were running
late (and I hate being late). As we were pulling up to the school
I noticed a fairly long line of cars containing children who were
also late for school that day and I breathed a sigh of relief
- at least I would not be the only one late. Perhaps with all
these people being late, my lateness was excused or understandable
- after all, wasn't just about everyone else late? Therefore it
was not my fault.
Gen 3:12 is
the first instance of our "natural" reaction to sin - it is someone
else's fault and, besides, everyone else is doing this. We hate
the person standing outside our sin and NOT doing it because it
makes us look bad, so therefore, we will make them look as bad,
no, worse than we are...at least then we are not hypocrites.
This is why
Christ promised us in Matthew 24:10 - "you will be hated by all
nations because of me". We are loved because of His teachings
on living but hated because of His teachings on salvation. The
world wants to eat the cake and have it too.
Sincerely, Tom Peck
PARADOX
ON RELIGION
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: Jon
People feel
convicted by religion. They don't want to have to be held accountable
for their sinful lifestyles. People will admire people with religious
convictions as long as those convictions aren't "forced" on them.
Pray for these people that their hard hearts would be melted and
accept Christ as their savior from sin. God Bless!
CONFLICT
ON RELIGION
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: Rev. Linda Middelberg
I think that
we respect people of faith if they appear to be living their faith
not just talking about it. But we are suspcious of them because
we are afraid that they will try and force us to believe as they
do. As Christians we walk a tight line between witnessing to our
faith and bullying people into thinking like we do. In a pluralistic
society, we have to recognize the moral opinions of others in
the public areana while still standing up for our own beliefs.
It is even complicated more by the fact that all Christians cannot
even agree of issues ranging from welfare reform to abortion.
So someone in a position of public trust and power must be committed
to enforcing the will of the majority while still protecting the
rights of the minority and staying true to one's own religious
background. This can not be an easy task and I guess we doubt
that it can truly be done. I hope that it can and I pray that
the current administration will be able to do so even though I
did not orginally support them. Thanks for you wonderful website.
i have used it numerous times to prepare for Sunday School classes
and contemporary worship services.
Yours in Christ, Rev. Linda Middelberg
LOVE-HATE
RELIGION
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: sharon
Being born
Italian and raised Catholic I love the ritual of the Mass, but
I don't like being preached to. I don't like people trying to
brain wash me into their beliefs and I don't trust people who
are too religious, I always feel like they are pulling my leg
and trying to see if they can take me for a ride. Organized religion
has used the Bible throughout history to persecute people, no
one way is the only way. If people were to live by the golden
rule or the prayer of St. Francis of Assis, the world would be
a better place and people won't have to worry about their souls.
WALKING
FINE LINE
Subject: Newsletter_21
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001
From: Gary Stokes
Dear David,
I think the extreme left are afraid of people of real faith. I
know that I am walking a fine line in some readers minds, but
hear me out. The bible says that a person of faith will be known
by their fruit and out of the mouth the heart speaks. If a person
talks faith but does not walk faith that person is not a threat.
But, if a person walks out their faith that person is seen as
a threat because the enemy (satan) does not like a person of true
faith.
Gary Stokes
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