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Paul Lauer:  In your interviews with the various scientists who are staunch defenders of Darwinism, did you find any link between Darwinism and atheism?

Ben Stein:  I would say not always, but almost always—and certainly the big, big names in the field (like Richard Dawkins) are extremely militant atheists.  I don’t think you have to be an atheist to be a Darwinist, not by any means; but the big powers in that field often are.

Walt Ruloff:  The disturbing thing that we’re revealing in the film, together with the social Darwinism aspect (which is the Nazi section of the film) is also the implication of where this type of thinking will lead as far as a world view.  So, we go into great depths in actually interviewing people like Richard Dawkins and P.Z. Meyers and other people that kind of give their “reverse conversion” to a place of atheism that arose from this type of thinking.  So, yeah, we show evidence of a very clear connection.

Paul Lauer:  Now, you interviewed many scientists, some of whom we see their faces and others are actually blacked out—

Ben Stein: Because they were hiding. 

Paul Lauer:  Walt, there were some out there who wanted to speak on this issue but they were afraid to show their identity.  Could you tell us a little bit about that?

Walt Ruloff:  Yeah,  we interviewed many, many, many scientists, who— First of all, we talked to hundreds and hundreds of scientists who wouldn’t even talk—wouldn’t even go on camera, even if we assured them that we were going to black them out.  So, for the ones that finally did, there were dozens of scientists that we were unable to do that with.  The reason why they need to do that is because if they stray from the current orthodoxy, if they stray from a Darwinian position, and you’ll see this in the movie, these people have been called into their superiors’ offices and have lost their jobs, or have been denied tenure, or have been so discredited by the powers that be that their future, and their hopes and dreams of being a scientist, have been quashed; and so, this is a real problem, as we’ve discussed.  

Paul Lauer:  You know, I think there are a lot of people out there on the other side of that equation, you know, the staunch defenders of the Darwinist paradigm who say, “You’re crazy!” That this really isn’t happening, that this suppression is not happening, that people are free to speak their mind, that they have to simply show the evidence for what they’re saying and that evidence will be considered.  

Walt Ruloff:  Uh-hm. 

Paul Lauer:  And you’re saying that’s not what you found. 

Walt Ruloff:  Well we’re actually— The reaction to this movie has been absolutely, very, very strong.  I mean from that particular camp, it has been filled with a lot of hatred, and a lot of anger.  We see that as a positive.  We see that as a validation that we’re on the right track here.   Because typically when— I know this again, from technology, you know if there’s a disagreement, and you want to talk about something, that’s welcomed.    You should be able to talk about it, but because we’ve had this reaction we know we’re touching a very sore issue; and typically people that are thinking and rational people don’t need to act like this.  So, something is very much threatening this position.  

Paul Lauer: One of the scientists in the movie made the comment that when you examine the science you bring your world view into the examination and depending upon your personal world view it can actually influence what you see when you examine the data.  

Walt Ruloff: Uh-huh. 

Ben Stein:  Well, that’s true of every area of every kind.  That’s true of law, true of economics, it’s true of science, it’s true of everything; we’re all influenced by the views we bring to the subject. That’s just a basic truth about all aspects of human existence.   

Paul Lauer:  Do you feel there could be a bias then, for those—I think the vast majority of those in the sciences; I think it’s something like 80 or 90 percent of them are professed atheists—

Walt Ruloff: Um, let me— No, within biological studies, or in biology, it is a very, very high ratio of, you know, borderline agnostics to atheists, so let’s be clear about that.  So when you move into cosmology and other areas it definitely changes. But to answer your question: absolutely, if you come in with the world view that is materialistic and naturalistic, to the core,  that is going to mandate you to be able to perform your science where you always outflank the metaphysical implications, and that’s problematic.    

Thanks to Motive Entertainment for providing the transcript of their January 22 teleconference with Ben Stein and Walt Ruloff. The full, unabridged telecon is available from Gotham Conference in podcast form. Expelled is scheduled to release in April.