MUSIC FORUM
PAST COMMENTS PAGE 3
PAST COMMENTS PAGE 2
PAST COMMENTS PAGE 1

GREED G-D
Subject: Creed
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002
From: Z

Hi... i would just like to point out that the says "to each his own" and "for each man to work out his own salvation" just a couple things for thought there.. if you feel bad about listening to it. dont freakin listen to it..
-z

CREED DISCUSSION
Subject: Creed
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001
From: benjamin

David, first let me thank you for posting my note on Creed, and music (your page 114); I haven't received any emails to discuss the topic yet, but i'm hoping to get a discussion going. anyone up for it? (benjamin@dublin.com) second is a thought i had while skimming the last set of entries on the HollywoodJesus comments page. "our struggle is not against flesh and blood!" people are not our problem. opinions are fine, but we have to keep THE POINT in focus to intelligently discuss pop culture, movies, music, etc.
ben

ps: our discussion on Scott Stapp (Creed) has been postponed to Nov 24. Tune in @ 7pm Sat nights at 15620 95 Ave, Edmonton, Canada, or check our website(www.gathering-online.com) for the audio download of the evening. I'd love to have a virtual "gathering" of believers, who don't live in the Edmonton area. 'mail me if you're interested! --

ARGUMENT OVER CREED
Subject: Creed
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001
From: Kim

I just thought I'd pitch in my thoughts of this "argument" over the review of Creed.

I'm gonna start by humbling myself and saying I have been a hypocrite in the past, and sometimes I'm hypocritical without realising it today, but I try not to.

The whole G-D issue reminds me of an account of a new believer giving testimony. He was so passionate he blurted out an expletive to accentuate his joy and overwhelm-ment (if that's a word!). He was escorted out of the church because of this outburst, but the people only identified what accidently surfaced instead of looking into what the believer's heart was saying. I'm not saying we should tolerate swearing, but as ambassadors of Christ (a reflection of Christ) I believe we should learn to have patience. Jesus Christ was sworn out while he was hanging on the cross, but showed forgiveness for his oppressors, not criticism. Look at what these musicians hearts are saying rather then the words.

Also, I have looked into the history of singer song writer Scott Stapp of Creed. He grew up as the son of a severe and strict southern baptist who believe "Rock and Roll is the work of Satan". So harsh was the environment, Scott ran away from home and was pushed away from Christ because of religion; a man made endeavour. This information is in Creed's official web site. Plus they address the GD issue themselves there.

I'd also like to address comments of staying away from secular music, and secular environments. I believe we can not isolate and privatise our spiritual lives. If Jesus Christ stayed away from secular (sinful) people, where would we be now? One could argue "Bad company corrupts good character", but this is only true if you become distant from the body of Christ. Some people criticise musicians such as Payable On Death for hanging out with secular musicians such as Korn and The Deftones, but miss the point of friendship evangelism. In a study most people that became Christians did so because of people they knew well who were Christians. Not because of someone pointing out the rights and wrongs of their life, or from a new faith initiative... from friendship. They got to know eachother as people, not as a suit & tie.

Any, there's my £0.02
Peace be within you,
Kim
England

VIEW FROM WITHIN THE BIZ
Subject: creed/ U2 reviews
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001
From: "benjamin hunter" benjamin@dublin.com

hey,. wuzzup, David?
I'm a thirty three year old believer, and an industry professional. I've been both a believer and in the music industry, on one side of the mic or the other, since I was 8. Having said that, I'll say that I did not "grow up in the church". In fact, the "church" *crapped* on my family quite severely when I was a child and my parents never got over it. I prefer an arms-length and infrequent relationship to my mainstream family, however nice most of them may be. I have, really, more respect for Scott, Ed, Bono, and the other guys in Creed, Live, U2, and Staind, in pretty much every way, than I have for most of the mainstream church "Christians" I have met. At my age, that's a lot of people. Real is what we must be, and seriously most of us miss the boat everytime. The difference is the maturity to see it and admit that it's there. Thank Dad for grace! I am part of a small family of believers we call "the Gathering", a very post-modern group, and employed by a national sound/stage gear supplier, both based in Edmonton, Canada. I say this to give some background for my letter.

About Creed and U2.
So what?
If the boys are believers, let 'em be, pray for 'em.
If not, then pray harder, already!

I would put Creed, Live, U2, and Staind in the same musical/lyrical catagory, myself. Beliefs aside, all four write and perform music which seeks to ask questions in a way that will get listeners thinking, and asking questions themselves. Case in point, "Peace on Earth (U2). "Jesus, could you take the time, to throw a drowning man a line, Peace on Earth". I could take about two and a half hours typing, to SKIM over the different and interconnected possibilities of meaning and the issues raised in just the chorus of this song!

CIP#2 "Epiphany", (Staind) "It's always raining in my head. Forget all the things I should have said." This song gives accurate voice to my view of my own relationship with the Father. Depth galore, here...

#3 Overcome, (Live) I pray this song. "Drive me out to that open field. Turn the ignition off, and spin around. Your help is here, but I'm parked in this open space, blocking the gates of love." nuf said.

CIP#4 "What if" (Creed) "What if your words could be judged like a crime?" Do I need to spell this one out?

I worked on the U2 POP tour a few years back and happened to meet Bono in the elevator. He reminded me of me, only different on the outside. Very decent guy. Each of these guys swears on almost every CD they make. I swear every day. None of us has it together the way we "should". Funny, none of you out there in Listenerland have it together either. Why? Because we're human and we are broken and incomplete.

Reading the reviews on your website and the petty little debates your readers get into about this kind of stuff, I was struck by the lack of depth that almost everyone displayed. Dude, we are the childen of THE embodiment of love, we need/must/HAVE GOT TO write/review/respond like we are. (the band says this, God says this, I think...) Lining everything up to Christ and His ideals is the only way to be.

Keep it up, man! It's good to see a website that professes Christ and doesn't suck.

Check out our site at http://www.gathering-online.com for an upcoming review of Scott Stapp by George Hardy, my roommate and a 51 year old ordained minister and doctor of mathemetics! He's speaking on Oct 27.

Y'all at hollywood Jesus will be prayed for, you can count on it.
blessings,
ben hunter benjamin@dublin.com
canada

ps: please post this (with my email address) if you can spare the space on your site, I'd be interested to see if it sparks any new discussions...
conciousness: that annoying time between naps...

USE OF PROFANITY
Subject: Creed
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001
From: Kevin

After reading a few of the comments posted here about Creed and their use of profanity in the end of "What's this life for", I thought I would throw in my two cents worth. I'm curious if any of these people have visited the FAQ section of Creed's website to find out what the circumstances surrounding that song are. If they had, they would have discovered that the theme for that song came from two of Scott's friends who committed suicide because "they could never find... what's this life for". While I don't excuse Scott's use of profanity, because it does bother me too, I can see that he is venting his anger at the loss of his friends. I look at it this way, we all have done something in the past because we were caught up in the heat of the moment and said things that we wish we could take back. Unfortunately for him, his mistake was recorded and preserved. I'm just glad that God looks past those moments (when we ask for forgiveness) and concentrates on trying to see the good in us. I chalk up Scott's verbal slip up to youthful indiscretion, and try to focus on all the other good songs that they have put out and the positive effects those songs have had on today's generation. If God were to judge me every time I've screwed up, like everyone that is ripping this one song, I'd be in big trouble. Anyway, those are my thoughts.
Thanks for listening.
Kevin

THE GD IN CREED
Subject: Creed
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001
From: marc

I'd like to address the "GD" reference in the last tune on Creed's album- it is indeed a problem, if these guys are are alluding at all to be Christian "in background", or even "leaning in that direction". Sounds like a weak justification, in defense of it's being on the site at all, actually. Biblically, you are either on the train or off, hot or cold, but never lukewarm. The Lord say's He does'nt want us halfway- we are either for Him or against Him (NIV). I see the positive outlook reference in the album, and I certainly realize the lyrics come across as uplifting, but where do we draw the line, and call a spade a spade? The guys are'nt espousing their Christian beliefs, and we as listeners, reviewers, etc, are going off track by handing the benefit of the doubt to them so easily. How can you sing of God's influence in a person's life, (crown of thorns), heaven (?), etc., and finish it up with taking the name of the Lord in vain? Blasphemy come to mind, here? It's one thing to want to get into the world, move among the unsaved, and tell them of God's grace, forgiveness, and willingness to forgive us our sins- it's another to compromise the lines Christ drew, blurring the demarcations of the righteous and the unrighteous. There is a black and white delineation in effect- you're either for Him, or you're against Him. The hope of all Christians would be to see all of the world glorifying Him, and singing prise to our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ- it's our responsibility as Christians to use our own God-given gifts and talents to try and achieve this end; tell the world of the Lord and spread His Gospel, in a loving, kind, and righteous way. The problem seems to be the allowance of the culture at large to influence Christians into believing it's OK to partake of the world's delights - not what God has given us, but what we as humans have produced for our own consumption-, and leave what we don't think is right, behind. This is really not a decision for us to be making, as we are not able to righteously make this decision on our own, without the help of the Holy Spirit. Not to say we need to seek the Holy Spirit each time we walk into Tower Records, or Blockbuster Video, but to seek the Holy Spirit to guide us in ALL our decisions, to convict us in our unrighteous (non Christ-like) attitudes, and to seek the Lord's will, not our own. If we are left to make the decisions, we lose. If we seek The Lord's Will over ours, we are in the right with Him, doing as He wants us to do, and being who He wants us to be. It's impossible to straddle the line and expect to be in favor with God. Iniquity and righteousness are polar opposites. The Lord wants us to be happy, content and satisfied; hence, all the wonderful things He has given us. Compromising His Will, and forsaking it in desire for the world's attractions, will surely be the beginning of a downfall for any believing Christian. The Amplified Bible refers to "Uncompromisingly Righteous" many times. There is not to be a compromise when it comes to doing the Lord's Will- we can't have it both ways. Some of the world, and some of the Lord- giving satan a foothold is not a place any one of us can stand to be for very long. Be careful as to what you let in to the Lord's temple- your body; He created you, made you who you are, and also gave us free will; the tremendous responsiblity of making our own decisions, for right or wrong. That is freedom, and it can be turned into a curse, if abused. Seek the Lord's Will - ask for guidance, and ask the Holy Spirit to show you where iniquity lies in your heart. Feeding it music, film, etc., that taints, deceives, and lures you away from Jesus is panting bad seeds. Weds from these seeds will overtake the field, and spoil the harvest. Be careful what you allow in. Remember, satan can "appear as an angel of light", and knows every single word of the Bible, quite well. If he can try to tempt Christ, what sort of chance do you think you might have? Jesus did not have a vacation there- he was human, like the rest of us, for a time. Pain and suffering was the order for the day, for 40 days- we just plop our dough on the counter, and walk out with the stuff. Be careful, and seek the Lord's guidance. Thanks, if you read this far, and God Bless You.
marc

Response: marc So what does reviewing a secular album have to do with being lukewarm. So what if Creed says "g-d" -what of it? HJ is a Christian site that reviews secular stuff. Strange though... Why are you even on the internet? Why are you even aware of Creed? Your email itself is a review of Creed. Oh my gosh you listened to a secular group! And reviewed it. Like oh my gosh. Your email is a self reflect of you! I hope God is less judgemental of you, than you are of others. You email is certainly g-ding of us -isn't it. You hypocrite. You can g-d us But Creed can not say the actual words You can review Creed But we can't. Hmm. All I can say to you is: May God bless you May God give you peace May God love you beyond measure. Acts 17:16-34
Warmly yours, David Bruce

Marc's response:

So what does reviewing a secular album have to do with being lukewarm.

Mr. Bruce, this is not a personal attack. It's an observation, with my views expressed as a caring, fellow Christian.

David's Response: Nice words, but you were being judgemental.

So what if Creed says "g-d" -what of it?

Not to be judgemental here, but isn't this profanity, in most Christian circles? I was under the impression that Christ has set a standard for ALL of us to follow, clearly laid out in the Bible (correct me here, if I'm wrong).

David's Response: Creed is a secular group. So, your words do not apply. Also, where does Jesus address the issue of "profanity'?

HJ is a Christian site that reviews secular stuff.

True, as far as I can see-

Strange though... Why are you even on the internet?

Communication- Like many other Christians. Education. Sharing of information. I'd like to pose to you the same question. I'm sincerely interested in your answer.

David's Response: Communication.

Why are you even aware of Creed?

I do shop for music, like most folks. I really don't live in a hole in the ground. I listen to the radio. I read newspapers. I work in the entertainment industry. Walking down the street I, like everyone else with eyes and ears on the planet, am bombarded by advertising, courtesy of the music industry.

David's Response: You are saying that you know about Creed through unintentional means? I do not buy your explanation.

Your email itself is a review of Creed

Actually, I think your take on my commentary may be just a bit broad to be accurate, and lends itself to be more than a little defensive. I don't recall having reviewed the album, if I'm to see your reviews as as an example.

David's Response: You did review it, giving it a thumbs down for the use of G-D.

Oh my gosh you listened to a secular group!

Sure! the problem is not with listening to "secular" groups. The issue I posed is with mixing messages/ blurring the lines of the Word with the words of non-christian attitudes, as a message in itself. I'm a big fan of U2- not a "Cristian" group per se, but three of the four guys are professed Christians. Is this unusual for a Christian?

David's Response: You know so much about the secular world you dismiss. Very curious.

And reviewed it. Like oh my gosh.

Again, I think it might behoove you to read the letter again. I would'nt use the term reviewed so loosly, myself. Again, I take the stand I am not a reviewer- you are. I responded to a review on your site. I don't see much of what might be discerned as a review in my letter (using your reviews as a standard, here).

David's Response: Again, you did review it, giving it a thumbs down for the use of G-D.

Your email is a self reflect of you!

Could you be a bit more detailed here? I'm not sure I understand what exactly you might be alluding to. I would certainly appreciate some clarification of your statement, if you don't mind.

David's Response: It seems you are involved with the very thing you condemn. And then you are quick to point at those that do the same as you.

I hope God is less judgemental of you Than you are of others.

Geez, I am sorry you feel this is being judgemental- certainly not my intention, as I do feel I am not in the position to be judging anyone. I do feel, as a Christiaan Brother, that I am in the position to say what I see as a discrepancy, in the hope of opening a postive dialogue concerning the isssue at hand.

David's Response: What issue? That secular groups use language? We all agree that this is true. So what dialogue do we need to have?

You email is certainly a g-ding of us -isn't it.

Actually, I don't see it as an attack, tho you seem to feel it is. I apologize for your taking this in such a way, but I do think your response here is a bit reactionary. I have no desire to "damn" anyone. Only to open a dialogue. Again, if you were to read the bottom of my letter, I do wish God's Blessings on any one who care to read the letter.

David's Response: Nice closing on your letter. But, it was a finger pointing letter.

You hypocrite.

I don't agree, tho I would appreciate your clarifying this point of view for me, if you would.

David's Response: You are involved with the very thing you condemn. And then you are quick to point at those who are as involved as you.

You can g-d us But Creed can not say the actual words

I don't recall "damning" anyone in the Lord's name in my letter. If you would, could you point this out? I am certainly open to correction, if I'm wrong.

David's Response: You are finger pointing.

You can review Creed But we can't. Hmm

You can do whatever it is you would like to! It's God's gift, this freedom to make our own decisions, and I did mention that in the letter as well. I personally don't feel I did anything resembling a "review" of Creed's album- I'm only responding to a post I had read on your site. Where it had been been reviewed.

David's Response: Again, you are involved with the very thing you condemn. And then you are quick to point at those who are as involved as you.

It is an amazing example of self righteousness.

Could you explain your view here? I don't feel I am being self-righteous, rather sharing what is common knowledge, biblically. Again, I would appreciate your comments, if I am incorrect here.
David's Response: As above.

CREED
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001
From: Mini gal (Christchurch)

I totally agree with Rex about his article regarding Creed. An awesome band and alright lyrics it would be great if you are seen in the areas where Jesus walked don't be shy Jesus wasn't how about it go into all the world and preach the gospel brothers.
Mini gal(Christchurch)

CHRISTIAN OR NOT
Subject: help I'm a youth pastor trying to find out about the creed!
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000
From: Debi

1. 1.What is up with this music group the creed? I've found some info on this group and have been told allot verbally! So is this group Christian or not? It appears to me not, but I want to hear what you have to say.

Response: Christian in background. -David

CREED AND SOURCE OF INSPIRATION
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000
From: Weed Righteous

Cool! Ha Ha, i've told people, "don't you see the message of truth in that movie, or this movie, and what of tv, and music, and nature, etc." I was sooo wondering how i could possibly do the things that inside burn white hot to do. Taking the music of RedHotChiliPeppers, Limp Bizkit, Papa Roach, P.O.D., and Creed (to make the last band see what it's all about, and how the pharasees acted verses how Christ acted - and that, ladies and gentlemen, is more like all the ones before Creed - eventhough i truly love the music creed makes, but i see The Father as the source of the inspiration, using the talents he gave to them, to accomplish His will. It's all about hearing the true inspiration in things, at the point it arose within the artist, before it traveled through the inner layers of our being, the soul is where it's planted, the spirit is where it passes through, and takes on it's form - and also showing the soul of the artist who inspiration kissed, as it comes to life. After all, it isn't necessarily what the writer intended as much as it is what the audience gets from it (what it means to them, then find what the artist went through, that was used to form the project, as it was enough for inspiration to work within that individual, then you can see the deepest part of the music - what God is saying in it).

The funny thing.... The church has held the name of christ and has even done so much as to literally strip clean the robes of glory off of the name of Christ. In all the haneous acts through history, done in the name of christ, the deception that was bred into the church, from times when men saught the riches the church could be capable of...that stemming from when one of the early bishops of what is now the "catholic" church (original meaning behind the word was universal - originally, they showed everyone the message of christ in their own beliefs, correcting what was wrong with them, and knowing that it all goes back to Abraham and Melchizadek, using a white light and a spectrograph to see why there are so many different variations on the same basic pricipals....the key was to show the world Jesus as being the fullfillment of more things that just the Jewish Canon. The word canon giving the purpose of the Bible - not like they say today, as today they say the Book of Enoch is secular, just as the hebrews did once they got the first 5 books of the bible from God through Moses - it's the book the first church preached from most, and the book of Hebrews is trying to tell everyone that....and it's the only book the Bible Quotes! it's in Jude.... My point is simple, just as they said originally, after praying to God for a canon with which to measure truth by, understanding the premise that if it contradicts the Bible blatantly, it's wrong. If it's just not worded the same or giving more meaning to what the Bible says is fact, or whatever, it's ok to know about it, and it's ok to believe it but, take your eyes off of that simple thing and see Jesus, see him Glorified, and then look back at his life and see how he truly was, a rebel in the eyes of the pharasees but righteous in the eyes of God! The bible says he is the high priest of the order of Melchizadek, yet no Christian who only reads the bible has any idea what that means, so they preach false teachings about it, in utter ignorance. from age 12 /13 to 29, there is no record in the bible of jesus, in fact there is no record of it anywhere that was written at that time, save one... In Tibet, the only other place who held such a sacred respect for writings of their faith - but having no canon, there is a writing titled "St. Issa, the Best of Men"...Issa being Tibettan for Y'eshua which is Jewish for who we call Jesus. The proof of where He was is found in the bible but, you have to look at his words and actions, they all say where he was.... and by so doing, and this writing, one gets a much more full picture of Christ... it's getting to know Him. But, because of the Church, i see movies and music as bing used today to teach and prepare people for things coming. With that said, poorly but said.... I just open up and stuff floods, out, hard to keep up with my fingers and near impossible to stay focused and put it in any kind of coherient order....i almost see pictures flooding by me, up and to the right of me, outside of me but inside of my body....it's wild, i don't understand it, and i'm afraid if i understand it too much, it'll stop being fun.

Anyway, i rarely ever read through what i type, just kinda spit it out there, for whatever purpose it may serve - even if only to get you to think about Him for one second, then i guess my work here is done. I applaud your site, am glad i'm not the only one who can see the message of God in movies. Here's one for you...listen to "Saviour" by Red HOt Chili Peppers, and tell me if you can see the 3 layered depth of meaning and purpose to it....it's the easiest one i can think of...unless you listen to Creed "one" from "human clay" cd. But anyway. thanks for your time, kick ass site, and May God Richly Bless you with that blanket of warmth that goes through you, inside and out, as if you just know he's hugging you for an instant. That more than any amount of money, trust me on that one. Anyway, Peace Brotha, and do some more movies, close your eyes and pick one...try Dogma. Or better yet, the woody harrelson movie "play to the bone". In it, Woody harrelson, a christian who loves christ but also loves women, and his best friend who was gay for a bit, are boxing eachother. As time goes on, woody, the better fighter, begins to see his sins take an affect on his psyche, and all the sign girls were naked, then he'd see Christ - even in his weakness, Christ gave him strength and grace. the other guy, seeing the ref naked in his psyche, and not believing in Christ, yet there is no winner to the fight... the positives in woody, though not forgotten were soured by the impure lust of women, simply balanced out a former homosexual disbeliever. pretty cool,
anyway, bye WeedRighteous

RIGHT ON
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000
From: stavesacre

I think your comments are right on. I have gone through all aspects when it comes to music. I grew up listening to nothing but "secular music". I threw all of it away and listened to nothing but " christian music". I now listen to both.

Groups like Creed can be used to answer the questions in life when it comes to the unsaved. I do not like to categorize music into secular or christian. An object cannot be christian, only people. We all share the same experiences in life in some way and groups like Creed help us to see that. We all at times get stuck in "our own prisons". But we old the key as Christians and we need to find common ground to witness to the lost. Scott Lipsey with a sigh i greet the day i feel the morning on my face weary at the moment i awake even as i lie the thought returns to mind "welcome to the rest of your life".
stavesacre

WHAT ABOUT THE 'GD' IN CREED
Subject: In refrenence to the band Creed
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000
From: "abby and keith"

I am not into what you would say secular music so I really haven't listened to much Creed other than a couple of music video's I saw at my place of employment in our electronics department. I have this friend who was into the music world real heavy and listend to what ever caught his ear. Well since then he turned his life over to Jesus and he has been called into the music ministry and has his own alternative Christian band. Well he said he heard Creed were a Christian group or at least hinted at it. So he got the the cd and listend to it. and the thought it was an awesome cd. Well as he finished listening to the cd the on the last song. the song ends with the refrence. "GD" and then it is over. My friend was obviously shocked and upset and got rid of the cd right then. I just thought I would say something about it just to let you all know that we do have to be careful what we listen to even if it sounds good, has Bible quotes in it and all, does not make it uplifting. "A little leven, levens the whole loaf."

MUSIC SITES?
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000
From: Jakob, Sweden

What a great job you have done with this website!!! Do you know if there is any simular sites about music?
Jakob, Sweden.

Response: Christians, unfortunately, tend to be judgmental and believe that the way to change the world is by throwing rocks at the culture. I am of another opinion. I believe that Christians should interact with the world around them in a loving and kind way. Hollywood Jesus tends to be in a class by itself amoung Christian sites. Any way, NO I do not know of a Hollywood Jesus type music review site. However, HJ is beginning to do music reviews. Also, if any one knows of any Jesus-centered non-moralistic secular music review sites let me know and I will post the links. -David Bruce

OPINION ON CREED
Subject: My Opinion of the Band Creed
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000
From: Michael

Hello,
First of all I would like to say that I have seen the movie "Stigmata" and as a born again Christian, I feel that the movie touched me spiritually because it showed me the symbolisms that Jesus spoke of in the Bible. But that is another subject.

The band Creed is my favorite band. I have both albums My Own Prison and Human Clay. I read an article on your website that mentioned the fact that the band members are not Christians. I would have to say that that statement is not all true. Lead singer Scott Stapp, if you were to read his biography on the official website, was born into a very religious family and reared as a Christian. Although the band may mention that they are not a Christian band (which in today's society is defined as bands or singers who sing of Jesus and God in their lyrics), that in no way means that the members of the band are not Christians. Based on the lyrics written by Stapp and fellow bandmember Mark Tremonti, the scenarios and biblical references speak for themselves. I feel that Creed tries to reach an audience of those persons who feel down on themselves, who make mistakes and strive to find ways to make right of their wrongs. As Christians, we all know that through prayer and faith in Jesus Christ, we gain salvation. However, I feel that this band allows its audience to seek their own methods to obtain salvation however subtly hint of Jesus as being the way to that salvation.
Sincerely,
Michael Adams