David Bruce


with comments by David Bruce

I receive a lot of e-mail.  I am not able to post all the mail. I have included a good sampling, however.  If the subject is the same I might group the newer messages with similar older ones.  Also, my response may appear a few days after the original posting. I can't do HJ everyday.  You must include your "name" and e-mail address within your comment if you want it posted, otherwise it will not be posted (there is a privacy issue here and we respect that).  I do, however, encourage you to give your "name" and e-mail so others can respond to you personally.
E-mail and Comments:
This page was last updated on July 5, 2001


Subject: U2_All_That_You_Cant_Leave_Behind
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: Dan

Man, oh man. I usually love your site, but did you ever miss the boat on this one.

Aside from what's been said before about INXS, Amnesty International, et.al., I'd like to point out a few things you missed lyrically. 1) Beautiful Day. Much more than a happy day song. Here, U2 captures the promise of hope in the midst of ugliness, as exemplified in the following excerpt: "Sky falls. You feel like it's a Beautiful Day." More to the point, it's a praise song (though not immediately obviously so). Beginning with the allusion to the parable of the sower "The heart is a bloom/shoots up through the stony ground" and right on to references to Christ's birth "There's no room/no space to rent in this town" and then brings it down to everyday life with talk of traffic and stress and depression, before exploding into the chorus, cause it's a "Beautiful Day." This odd dichotomy is carried right through to the bridge where it becomes painfully clear that U2 is singing about hope and joy amid despair and destruction, with a clear reference to the ultimate source of all hope:
"See the sky in green and blue/ See China [read: RED] right in front of you/
See the canyons broken by clouds [Natural Beauty]/
See the Tuna Fleets clearing the sea out [Man destroys nature]/
See the Bedouin fires at night [Primitive man at one with nature]/
See the Oil fields at first light [Industrial man raping the earth]/
See the bird with the leaf in her mouth [the dove from the Genisis Flood]/
After the flood all the colors came out [God's most enduring symbol of hope and promise]."

This song, like the others on this CD, are much more than they appear. Stuck in a Moment I'll skip because one of those writing in before me did a wonderful job.

Elevation: Here is another song you have greviously wronged. There are basically two ways to hear this song. One is as a basic, sexual, erotic and rapturous song about lust and love and obsession and elation. The other, is to hear it as if a charismatic preacher were singing it to the Holy Spirit or to Jesus, and it works well both ways. The tipper is once again the bridge: "Love, lift me out of these blues. Won't you tell me something true? I believe in you."

Bono, a man who reads history and the Oxford Companion to Literature for fun, has always honored the historic poetic tradition of addressing God as Love personified in his music (ex: Love Rescue Me, Rattle and Hum, 1987). And, even if it had nothing to do with God at all (which I don't buy), a song like that about sex is a beautiful thing in and of itself. After all, didn't God make sex to be that powerful on purpose?

Walk On has already been adequately defended.


Bono and the Edge both have talked since the early eighties about what they perceive as the end of Rock and Roll, and their mixed feelings about it. This song is a love song from the band to the fans, bidding farewell from the old hard-edged electronica and rock&roll sound with the promise that the band will still be around ("Who's to know when the time has come around/Don't want to see you cry./I know that this is not goodbye"). And, just in case you missed it, they makes an oblique reference to the critics who always raz them for changing their tunes on every album (Like a kite blowing out of control on the breeze./I wonder what will happen to you/You wonder what has happened to me). And, just in case you're really not getting it, they throw this in at the end:
"Did I waste it?
Not so much I couldn't taste it.
Life should be fragrant
Rooftop to the basement. [which is, BTW, a beautiful philosophy IMHO]
The last of the Rock stars
When hip-hop drove the big cars
In a time when new media
Was the big idea.
That was the big idea."

Please, don't dismiss this as a "Parting of two people" song. It's not (I was happy, though, that you liked the song...).

-skips a few more songs because it's all been said-

Now, Peace on Earth and When I Look at the World. The two are a matched set, one following right after the other. Both are prayers, one of anger and one of surrender. Peace on Earth is the hopelessness of a pacifist who is desperately hurting at all the pain he sees around him, and the pain he has participated in, begging God almost sarcastically to help him out.

"When I Look at The World" is nothing less than the fruition of all the sentiments and heartaches we glimpse in "Peace on Earth." It is the cry of a desperate soul who is worn out from too much care but wants to do more, wants to love more, wants to be Christ to the world around him, but can't.
"So I try to be like you
Try to feel it like you do
But without you it's no use
I can't see what you see
When I look at the world"

It's the cry of the Christian who is frustrated with his human frailty, who can discern right from wrong but is helpless to do anything about it. Who desperately wants to be with God, and is impatient with how slow things unfold on earth, but knows that he must wait on God. So he closes the song like this:
"I can't wait any longer
I can't wait till I'm stronger
I can't wait until dying
To see what you see
When I look at the world.
I'm here in the waiting room
Can't see for the smoke.
I think of you and your holy book
While the rest of us choke."

And then, plaintively, completes his prayer thusly:
"Tell me, tell me
What do you see?
Tell me Tell me
What's wrong with me?"

Haven't we all asked the same question from time to time. It's more than a song about losing faith in people, it's a song about clinging to faith in God and coming to a point of maturity of thought where you know you can't change the world, but with the spiritual and emotional maturity that is wounded by the pain and evil in the world. Simply beautiful.

Anyway, sorry if I jumped on you a bit at the beginning, but this is one album that deserves vigorous defense.

Subject: Dyan_Cannon
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: BK

Dear Ms. Cannon,
I have always loved your work and respected your acting ability. Of course, your hair is to die for! You are truly an inspiration for not only aging gracefully, but beautifully as well. I am of the Baby Boom generation, the generation that refuses to grow old so this is especially significant. But even more significant is my conversion to Christ twenty-two years ago. I was raised in a fundamentalist faith, abandoned it, became agnostic and after many years of soul searching became born again. I never publicized it or even talked about it much except with those who asked. I had organized religion shoved down my throat most of my life and never wanted to do that to anyone else but rather live a loving life. The Spirit would bring those of us with like minds and hearts together. I saw your interview on Larry King and you seem very sincere. I know it takes guts to put yourself out there as you have done and you are taking a lot of criticism from so called "well meaning" Christians. We have some things in common, first, my partner for life is a born again Jewish man. Yes, to all those who deny it, they do exist! Secondly, I have a Masters Degree in American Studies, particularly popular culture, of which you are presently the reigning queen. But most importantly, I have twenty years of spiritual research which not only led me to Christ, but enabled me to excel in apologetics or, defense of the faith. You see, you were drawn to Christ by His love. I was drawn to Him by His Truth. He appeals to each of us individually. What I have discovered in studying truth, not doctrine like most Christians, is that God's Truth in Christ will always meet with opposition because we have an enemy (there is a real devil) and we need to die to self. As a consequence of this fact, Christ, although loving, will never be popular. He wasn't when He walked the earth and He isn't today. He Himself said, They hate me, they will hate you, too. I know you are very popular and seek to do His will. Counterfeit Christs and gurus abound in this age of glossy image and media hype. I never got that impression from you. The red flag goes up when media makes coming to Christ a Hollywood extravaganza instead of the life changing experience it is. After all, we are talking about eternal destiny here, not just feeling good every day, right? I wish you strength to carry out His will and pray you don't let the self serving wolves in sheep's clothing deceive you with their private agendas, however well meaning they may seem.(This includes Christians). God be with you, Dyan and never lose that infectious laugh! Sincerely, BK

Subject: Evolution
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: Jason

Evolution was an overall enjoyable movie. I expected something serious but I found a little bit of everything in this movie. Comedy, Action, Romance and a few startling scenes made for a touch of horror. This is definitely a movie which doesn't require much thought and should be viewed for the dry sense of humor it contains. The combination of actors used in this movie seemed a little odd at first but they ended up being complementary to on another. I would definitely recommend this movie for anyone who wants a good laugh.

Subject: R-Rated movies Newsletter#26
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: "Guy Sorrill"

David For over a year now, I have been admiring your site from afar (I live in the UK). I have not been compelled to write until now, regarding the issue of Christians and R-Rated movies (or 18s as we call them in the UK). I am a passionate Christian and follower of Jesus Christ and I am a huge film fan. I watch almost any film that appeals to me regardless of content but one type of mainstream film I do not watch and object to other Christians watching is satan-focused horror movies. I sometimes feel uncomfortable watching 'dark' dramas (Cronenberg's Crash left me feeling numb), unnecessarily violent actioners/thrillers and films with explicit sex scenes for example...

I agree that as Christians, we are to be 'in the world, not of the world' but I think that there are some films whose focus is entirely on evil and this cannot be healthy for a Christian. There have been many such films (and TV series) over the past couple of years and I am pleased to say that I have not been attracted to any them. If you are a spirit-filled Christian, then Jesus will be with you wherever you are but why put yourself in a position where evil is the constant focus, not good (God).

I believe Jesus wants us to get out and speak his truth in the difficult, uncomfortable places in the world and make a difference but I fail to see what difference we can make by opening our minds to these films. From the trailers, I can see that there are images and influences I would not want going around in my mind, after all, our body is supposed to be a temple and our minds are part of that temple.

I also believe that it is easier for a mature Christian such as yourself with a network of people supporting you and thousands of readers, to ensure you stay on the path and are not overly influenced by movies. There may be young readers such as myself, some with a weaker faith, who may not be filled with the spirit and to whom opening themselves to evil forces (which blatantly do operate in some Hollywood movies) would be a very serious mistake.

I agree with 99% of what you say on your site and I find it all extremely refreshing. Please keep up the good work and keep raising the banner for Jesus above Hollywood. God Bless You.

For your info, my five favourite films of all time are:
1. Twelve Angry Men (NOT the HBO version!)
2. The Third Man
3. Lawrence of Arabia
4. Fight Club
5. Braveheart

Regards Guy

Subject: Vitimized Christian Newsletter #26
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: Dan Cramer

I totallly agree with your assement of the christain and film. I am a an aspiring filmaker and avid film buff. I alwaus feel giulty when talking about the genius of evil dead or trainspotting. So many young christains are told that a R rating makes a film ungodly, and not siutable for our eyes. It drives me crazy. The other day I was telling my friend i wanted to see moulin rouge, his girlfriend starts making a comment about the women being scantily clad adn thus i should not watch such a film. It made me so mad, that she could be so closed minded. Of course she never goes to the theater, only watches on videos.

Also when i tell people I want to make films, they all bring up examples like prince of egypt, bibleman or left behind. I just want to shake them and say no, i want ot make good films. I want o make films that entertain but have spritaul truth. i fear being pigeon holed into the christain market. So I will go forth and follow my lord and do what he has called me to do. I long to make a film that looks seirusly at school shootings, but can you imagine the backlash from the chritain commuity?

well i think i will conclude my rant now, but thanks for listening. Your site rocks it is my 2nd fave on the net (only to www.aintitcool.com) I have a site that aims to be like yours, www.morethenamovie.homestead.com your brother in the lord,
Dan Cramer

Subject: Church of Our Saviour-Presbyterian (USA) Newsletter#26
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: "G. Patrick Thompson"

Indeed, we are an open and inclusive Christian fellowship. We welcome all seekers, regardless of their beliefs or sexual orientation! Peace and keep up the good work!
Pat Thompson G. Patrick Thompson,
Pastor Church of Our Saviour--Presbyterian (USA)
6655 Middlebelt Rd.
West Bloomfield, MI 48322
(248) 626-7606
(248) 626-0052-Fax
Web site: www.mycoos.org

Subject: Victimized_Christian_Newsletter#26
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: Trent

David, I love the site, and have written before. As for the R-rated thing, I would hate to see an adult Christian miss out on the neat biblical allusions in movies like "The Shawshank Redemption" just because it had some rough language. My real problem doesn't quite fit into a category you mentioned, but I think it relates.

I am a Christian on the campus of a large state university. This story happened around the time of the big Promise Keepers rally in Washington DC a few years ago. One day, an editorial article appeared in the student newspaper, criticizing PromiseKeepers for faults that the writer found with its constituents. The article sited that for all the talk and hype, PK men didn't seem to be having a real impact on the country. This observation was used for the basis of a stinging criticism.

I knew exactly what would happen next, and my expectations were met. The next edition featured a response in which a reader fired right back on every point, turning each argument around with some degree of validity.

My point is this: the respondent had potentiated this attitude we have fallen into of defensiveness and policizing at every occasion. I am a PK guy, and I was there in DC and loved it; but I remember that a big point that was made there was humility and repentance. When we respond purely defensively to arguments made against us, no one is served, particularly not the cause of Christ. We are called to a high standard, and if it has gotten to the point where the world points that out to us, we should be on our faces before God, not blasting back at them as if we had to answer to them. The reason we do has a lot to do with the way we have started to interact with society in the arena of politics.

Let me first say that I believe strongly in our obligation to fight for some issues (like the sanctity of human life); but we then have to make allegiances with others who have different political agendas, and we get into trouble. I used to like politics, but I really am getting tired of it, especially when I see the church getting into arguments in which we don't belong and for no good reason. That, however is where we are, and it is the logical conclusion when we don't realize that our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual forces. And our weapons are repentance and prayer and reliance on God.

Anyway, that's about all I have to say about that.
Thanks, Trent

Subject: San Ramon Presbyterian
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: Dan

Don't have all the info on me at the moment, but San Ramon Presbyterian is just such a church. http://www.srpc.org
Thanks for the article, Dave!

Subject: Moulin_Rouge
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: Betty Hamm

Darrel, I didn't catch the Satine part but I kept wondering about Ewan as Christian. Especially since he was desperately trying to save her from the lifestyle. Then you have the comment from Zidler "we are creatures of the underworld." I felt several things watching this film.
1. There was way too much for me to grasp one time through and I want to see it again.
2. I felt as though I was watching a very important moment in the history of film.
3. I thought someone had taken Cabaret, Rocky Horror, and Monty Python shook them up and we got Moulin Rouge.

This film is beyond independent; it is definitely Post Modern.
-- Mrs. Betty T. Hamm
Fine Arts Director Evangelical Free Church,
Naperville Il (630)983-3232
bhamm@efcn.org http://www.efcn.org

Subject: Mithras
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: Seawitch

I have been doing a lot of research lately, in writing historical fiction. While I maintain that no one really knows, absolutely for sure, not as in just a matter of faith, but knows in the scientific sense how any of this really played out, there are some interesting things to note.

The Magi visited Jesus based upon the light they saw in the sky. These were very educated men, astrologers who had studied Babylonean astrology, ancient Hebrew prophecies, Hellenism and so on. They felt compelled to leave their land and travel a VERY LONG WAY to see the child to be born in Bethlehem. I am not convinced that they were there at the birth due to the length of their journey, however, Persia being some distance from Bethlehem. But in 7 BC there was a conjuction of Saturn and Jupiter that caused a very BRIGHT light in the sky. Not only that, but it occurred at the end of the age of Aries and the beginning of the Age of Pisces which at the time was rising in Virgo. So I find that interesting.

Each of these astrological ages are 2000 years...we are currently entering the 'age of aquarius'. Jesus' birth ushered in the age of Pisces, and one of the symbols for Christianity is a fish, and he was born of a 'virgin' (although when that is translated it really means, a young woman, not necessarily one who had not known a man) which is the symbol for Virgo. In and of itself I find these facts fascinating. The Magi knew that it was a significant event, being also the end of a Great Year (more astro babel) which only occurs every 26,000 years, give or take).

The ancient religion of Mithras has been around a while. Images of him wrestle a bull, and that makes me wonder if that age ushered in the age of Aries, as the age of Taurus, the bull, was being put down to usher in Aries, and the 'war like centurians' that went with that. Mithras was highly practiced by Rome especially the soldiers and temples can be found as far away as Africa in the South and Scotland to the North. St Peter's in Rome is built over an old Mithraic temple.

Mithras was born of a virgin, in a cave or grotto on December 25th. His followers observed some gruesome ritual where they would stand in a pit with a grill overhead and wait for the bull to be sacrificed, one of the deals with Mithra worship. As the blood poured out on them they would 'wash' themselves in it to cleanse, renew and be born again and upon emerging from the pit, they had become like Mithras.

Many ancient civilizations have a Sun God who is born on December 25th. Egypt had Osiris, there was Perseus and many others. Their stories all reflect each other. Born to a virgin, sacrificed for the good of the land. The winter solstic, December 21st, is the shortest day, the 22-24 within the celtic religion being the nameless days...times of introspection and meditation awaiting the rebirth of the Sun on December 25th when the days once again begin to grow longer. These feast days, however, were based upon a largely agrarian society that depended upon the year's cycles to determine the roles in life.

I think that Paul, in order to reach the great masses, had to make his version of religion acceptable to all and so these pagan practices/beliefs were woven into Christianity to create something that the people would accept and practice. Most of the New Testament is written by Paul and his works were the first written down. The next work was Mark which was done towards the end of the first century, and Matthew Mark and Luke generally reflect Pauls way of thinking...but they did not scribe these works themselves. They were written down by someone else. Who? we don't know. Paul was able to mold Christianity in they way that he thought would best serve and as the 'church fathers' founded the church and its canon toward the end of the 4th century, they decided to put into the bible what they thought would best serve. . .them. I think that a lot of 'truths' have been omitted from the Word of God, to the benefit of the men who founded the Church and grew rich from it and in order to gain the control over the masses that they needed at the time, since most of the world, was still pagan. I believe the Catholic Church is the richest organization in the world, and they posses deep within the recesses of the Vatican documents that have been sequestered away for 19 centuries as it would disrupt the status quo and the very foundation of what we all believe.

And that is OK!!! Religion is a man made phenomenon anyway. What is important is ones spirituality, spiritual growth, and enhancement of ones soul. So if Christianity was founded on pagan practices OK. It does not matter, Jesus was Jewish anyway. But his message, whether distorted by some or not, still brings hope to the hopeless and light into the world where only darkness exists. And as we approach the Age of Aquarius it is my prayer that all may experience the 'christos' state of enlightenment and see the intricate workings of God in all that we do, knowing that he has it all under control within his mechanations of the universe and our lives.
Angela Flores

Subject: Lord_of_Rings
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: ron sweeney

my response to your essay varied between laughing and being offended...the suggestion that c.s. lewis' christianity may have rubbed of on tolkein caused both reactions...i do wish to know if you think catholics are christian...and it is perhaps worth looking at how closely lewis' anglicanism was linked to catholicism

your accusations of modernism directed at tolkein are rather humourous. he and the rest of the inklings were so traditionalist and anti-industrialist. it might be worth investigating how the pessimistic conclusions are related to the england that he saw around him. instead of your statement "a new mythology for a modern world" i would suggest that tolkein is bringing back an old mythology for the modern world...an anti-technology pro religion stance quite in line with what cslewis does in "out of the silent planet," "perelandra," and especially "that hideous strength"
ron sweeney


Subject: Newsletter#26
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001
From: Jeff

Brother Bruce
Yeah you must have a lot of stuff to prioritize--we appreciate hearing from you.

What you're going through reminds me of the time Billy Grahm was preaching out here. As we pulled into the coliseum lot, there was this lone demonstrator outside w/a sign that read "Boycott Crusade-Oppose Ecumenism" This guy just didn't get it, hundreds were going to be introduced to Jesus as their living Savior and here he was, worried about Catholics working the same vineyard as Protestants, or baptisms, or whatever...

I think the real problem here for you, is how you deal w/this; firstly between you & Jesus, then w/those who oppose you & your ministry. God has obviously blessed you with a tremendous outreach, & you love doing it, kismet! You are able to personally reach out to persons who would probably never come under the influence of the church you mentioned in your newsletter.

Your real problem is how you deal w/this encounter, to receive the grace to: bless those who spitefully use you. Continue to focus on the Gift Giver, or these "little foxes" may spoil the vine.

Also let me commend y'all for visiting so many churches you probably have your finger on the church more than us too busy working in the church to get out and see THE church.
In Jesus strong Name Jeff

Subject: Victimized_Christian_Newsletter#26
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001
From: Paul Fleming

Dear David, Thank you so much for writing from your heart about your upsetting experience regarding the "R-rated films". Don't let it get you down. There is a tremendous difference (as you know so very well) between the REAL JESUS (God in the flesh, walking our streets, hanging with the ugly and unloved, LOVING US) and the dogmatic, unloving ones who, unfortunately often represent Him.

I told my church recently in a "testimony session" how I had seen the Lord open up a woman friend of mine one night when we were talking in a disco after work. The Holy Spirit touched her and we (briefly) touched on spiritual matters. I shared it with the others to encourage them to be LIGHT AND SALT, LOVING PEOPLE 24/7 *wherever they are*. Lord knows, life is so hard for all of us sometimes...

A week later my pastor -- a great guy otherwise -- told me he "had trouble from others" after the service who complained because "Christians don't go to discos"!

It really saddened me and I am still fighting with my feelings about this blindness that creeps in vía DOGMA. The Love of Jesus, the One Who DOES SAY "Follow Me" and "Sin no more", and Who is "The Way, the Truth, and the Life", is, no matter where we are, for ALL of us: lost, searching, confused, hurt, sinful...that's the beauty and mindblowing thing about His grace, this unmerited favor.

Somehow, my brothers and sisters at church have forgotten that GOD DID NOT SEND HIS SON INTO THE WORLD TO CONDEMN THE WORLD, BUT THAT THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED. Keep up the wonderful work, David.

Keep loving Jesus and all your readers on the Net, one at a time.
In Christ Paul Fleming

Subject: R-Rated Newsletter#26
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001
From: scott

thanks david couldn't agree more

fight club, trainspotting and idiot box
are my fave movies
plus they are real thought provoking movies

and i pity those narrowminded people who cant allow themselves to watch it and yes it is frustatiing to have those people judging us

i think you get it worse in the usa lifes alittle more open minded and relaxed in my scene in australia

God bless you work
its great thanks scott

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001
From: Laura

I thought this was a very good and enjoyable movie, though I did have some trouble with the modern music. After reading all the comments to date as well as the excellent summary, I noticed something that seemed to be missing. Before William receives grace, he stands up and faces the consequences of his actions, going against the wishes of his friends. To me, this was a wonderful lesson of responsibility tucked into a movie with many lessons going on.

Subject: Blair_Witch_2
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001
From: Michael Bobadilla

I've got another hidden word. . In chapter 5 of the DVD at 3:50 into it when the Wiccan chick lays down in the grass it says "ME" next to her in the grass in black.

Subject: Step Mom
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001
From: Chris Mileski Mileski24@aol.com

Toward the end of the movie, when the daughter realizes that her mother is dying of cancer, there is a wonderful illustration of the dynamics of the Christian lifestyle. After the daughter storms off mad about the situation her mother has left her in, she goes to her room to pout. This is so typical of how we are in life..when we feel that God has wronged us in some way and we remain angry and selfish. However, just like the daughter in the movie, we hear the music that reflects the life of faith and we are drawn to it...we are curious. Sometimes we go kicking and screaming. Regardless, though, we are drawn to God and what he has to offer. As she opens the door she admits and confesses her actions. Susan Sarandon does just like God does when we come to him...he invites us to participate in the celebration...to live a life rejoicing with Him. How appropriate too that the music played reflects that there isn't any mountain high enough or valley low enough to keep His love from us.
Chris Mileski

Subject: Moulin_Rouge
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001
From: Silvanus

Well, great fun, great music, fine performances, outlandish imagery. A romp and a great, good time.

In response to Darell Manson, I thought the references to "Christ" and "Satan" were rather obvious and broadcasted. Christian unabashedly commands to Satine and the world that "All You Need is Love", "Love is a Many Splendored Thing" and "..How wonderful life is, while you're in the world." Satine is prompted to sell herself to the temple thieves and idolaters, who do all they can to impress the necessity and preminence of materialism over 'love' and its power. Pretty obvious to me, and I wonder how it got past the naysayers, really. Christian sits in a building that has "L'Amour" in neon and writes in a room labeled "The Writer's Room". He sits above the world and ventures into a Hindi elephant to redeem a lovely siren who is confused about her true nature and who really created her.
Darn, it's a lovely film!.

Subject: Touched_By_An_Angel
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001
From: Dave

Touched By An Angel Petition Is A Hoax

Many people may have seen or received an email from an anonymous person which claims that Madalyn Murray O'Hair's organization, American Atheists, filed a petition to have CBS's "Touched By An Angel" program cancelled. Some websites actually have pages that not only make this claim, but which have email petitions that users can fill out and send the government. After a tiny amount of research, it became evident that this is a hoax, much like the old "Proctor and Gamble President is a member of the Church Of Satan" hoax that continues to resurface from time to time. For those who don't remember, a similar chain letter got started in the early 1980's, before the Internet, which accused Proctor and Gamble of being linked to the Church Of Satan, and alluded to an episode of the Phil Donahue show (which in later incarnations of the chain letter was changed to Oprah Winfrey, then to Sally Jesse Raphael) where the president of Proctor and Gamble allegedly admitted on television that he was a Satanist, and that profits from Proctor and Gamble go to the Church Of Satan. If you go to Proctor and Gamble, and then to the Oprah Winfrey websites, they have announcements about this chain letter being a hoax, and the Urban Legends Archive located at:

has more info on this. Apparently an Amway employee started the whole thing.

For those of you who knee jerked at the content of the " Touched By An Angel" e-mail, you'll be happy to know that American Atheists, the organization not mentioned by name, is indeed real and is indeed fighting for your constitutional rights even as you read this. If this sounds a little unreal to you rest assured I know how you feel; I get the same feeling when someone tells me they are trying to save my soul. Mrs. O'Hair, however, is dead. She was murdered a few years ago. The fact that the e-mail mentions her in the present tense suggests that the information is outdated, or a complete fabrication.

Now, back to the fiction. Petition Number 2493 is a hoax. It's been around for a while evidently, and they discuss it at their web sites;
In closing, I'd like for you to consider why it might be that a Supreme Court, which has never been made up of anyone but Christians and Jews, might think that prayer in schools is such a harmful idea. Certainly the atheists don't like it, but why would anyone, especially a believer, go so far as to outlaw school prayer and government involvement in religion as a whole? Could it be that letting religion and government mix is a scheme that might do harm to both? I suspect they fear, and rightly so, that government sponsorship or support for any religion will inevitably lead to the religious freedom of those of different beliefs being compromised. And just as you might have feared that one television program being removed might well lead to others being removed as well, so the Supreme Court is concerned that the loss of freedom for some means the loss of freedom for all.

I have no intentions what so ever of trying to keep even one person from believing whatever they wish, indeed I would fight, kill, and die, to make sure they had that right. That's what the government is for, to protect such rights. But to suggest that the government owes any particular faith or belief a platform on which to broadcast, whether it be email or a public school, is counter to the belief of freedom.

P.S. Just go to www.google.com, and search for "Touched+by+an+angel+hoax", and you will see more pages than you can shake a stick at which have even more information on this idiotic hoax.

You are on Comments page 89
Index to all the comments May 03 to Sep 12, 2001
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Sep 08-12, 2001
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Aug 12-17, 2001
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Aug 07-11, 2001
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Aug 01-02, 2001
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July28-31, 2001
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July16-19, 2001
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June 23-30, 2001
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June 13-14, 2001
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June 11-12, 2001
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June 11, coninued
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June 11, 2001
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June 10, coninued
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June 09-10, 2001
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June 03-08, 2001
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June 01-03, 2001
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May 29-31, 2001
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May 24-28, 2001
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May 22-23, 2001
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May 22 coninued
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May 12-21, 2001
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May 06-11, 2001
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May 03-05, 2001

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