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RESPONSES
TO NEWSLETTER #29
CONDITIONAL
GRACE
Subject: response to John 316 Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:11:26 -0800
From: "micki"
What if we replaced
the idea of God's judgement with the idea of God removing His grace? Because
we have become a Godless society. Didn't God take his grace away in the
past? Or at least threaten to? Think of Ninevah...they repented, God relented.
As a nation, we have become secularized. We do not let God into the foundations
of our government, our schools, we have removed him. It was illegal until
just last year or so, to silently pray in the Congressional rotunda.
Many of those groups
that Jerry Falwell, (or Falafel, if you prefer!) mentioned have at the
very root of their belief system the removal of God or I really mean,
Jesus Christ. John 3:16 says "whoever believes in Him will have everlasting
life..." It does NOT say, "whoever acknowledges that the person of Jesus
existed in a historical context...". So does the grace of God apply to
an entire nation that does not accept His Son? I think you have to be
a member of the club to have the rights and priveleges. Does that seem
exclusionary? You bet! However, everyone has the choice to join (believe)
or not.
I think that God removed
His hand of mercy from our country so that the CHRISTIANS would repent
and interceed for our nation. I believe that we are responsible to God
because we profess His Son's name. I think we, as Christians, have become
hypocritical and complacent. God wants to bless us. He wants to pour out
His mercy and He LET this terrible thing happen. HE DID NOT CAUSE IT!!!!
In any way, shape or form! But, He did not prevent it. It was a wake up
call, that's all. It was a tragedy, yes! There are perpetrators that need
to be punished, yes! But, WE NEED TO PRAY! Now we, as Christians have
a choice what we do from here. We should not throw stones, we should be
looking at our own lives and our own sin...because we are all sinners!
I am so proud to be
an American. But I also am a fundamental, bible believing Christian who
is on her face before God for the state of my nation and for the state
of my own heart.
Please give these
guys a break (Jerry, Pat, Hal, etc). Do they not have the same freedom
of speech and belief that the rest of us have? Yes, they have a responsibility
before God for the things they say, but God is big enough to deal with
their mistakes (If they are making any... who am I to say?). I am so tired
of the lobbyist, liberal, pagen, secular groups saying anything they want
and it's okay. They can totally trash the fundmental Christians and apparently
it is not a problem, even on this site. It is such a double standard!
Let both sides have the same freedoms! We are all Americans, that is what
makes this country great! God Bless my country, Lord
I pray the prayer
of Daniel, found in Daniel 9:4...
Paraphrase... "Lord,
you are Great and Awesome. We have sinned and done wrong. We have rebelled
and turned from your ways. We are covered in shame because of our unfaithfulness
to You...Now, O Lord, hear us and look with favor on us. We do not pray
because we are righteous, but because of Your great mercy. Oh Lord, listen!
Oh Lord, forgive! Oh Lord, hear and act! For Your sake, do not delay,
for we bear Your name."
And that's all I have
to say about that!
Micki Newcastle, WA
Response:
Grace is never earned, it is unmerited and unconditional. Please ask your
pastor about the meaning of Grace."For by grace you are saved, not
by works..." Also, why would God "call Christians to repentance"
by, in some fashion, killing innocent people in the WTC? Do you really
believe this is how God operates. Please think about what you are saying.
Your words are a mandate against God, I believe, and not Christians. -David
911
AMENS
Subject: Newsletter_29_I_Like_Jesus_But_Not_Fundamentalism
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Martha Tischler
Dear Bruce
You have again put in print what I prayed other Christians were thinking.
Fallwell's statements got me burning mad. And why do they always pick
and chose which terrible events are a judgement from God and other's just
the result of a fallen world. For instance, how many Christians thought
the bombing of Pearl Harbor a judgement or how about the Holocaust? Was
it God's will to do in 6 million of his chosen and 6 million other poor
souls? Did the Lord arrange the slaughter of the Armenian Christians and
the sad deaths of untold Africans in the Sudan. Just think of all the
rapes, murders and assaults that might be God's judgements. How about
the Civil War? Did the North and South deserve all it got? And everytime
a plane crashes, or a train derails, or there's a terrible fire, or a
car accident or some other horrible disaster should we all think that
this is all God's judgement for our sins? The is no end to the casualty
lists that we can lay at the door or heaven. NO - THIS IS NOT JESUS. Jesus
came to seek and save those who are lost not to judge. The warped view
of some cannot cloud the Christ of love and compassion. And always, He
will be seen by those who seek Him and desire peace and love.
Peace to you Bruce In His Service
Martha Tischler
FALAFEL
IN ARABIC
Subject: Newsletter # 29 with out Spell
Check
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001
From: Congregacion Beit Shalom
Dear David: do you
know what "falafel" means in Arabic? It is the arabic equivalent to the
Mexican taco!
May Elohim bless you,
Julio Dam Messianic
Renewed Rabbi
AMEN!
Subject: Newsletter_29_Feedup_with_Dooms_Day_Predictions
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Tony
Amen
- Tony
Instructor in Music and Worship Studies
Columbia Bible College
HIGH
5 BROTHER!
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Keith
It good to see, a
christian. willing to stick, his neck out and risk, getting his head chopped
off, for the lord. sent with joy and love! ?
Keith
http://community.webtv.net/KeithWK/PSALM45 http://community.webtv.net/KeithWK/Thepottersclay
Response:
I do get the eggs. Ahh! So what. I like scrambled eggs any time of the
day. Thanks for your encouragement -David
BOLD
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Kevin
It`s good to be Bold
in the spirit.
Keep on saying, what you want to say to us.
Thumbs Up!.
Kevin
http://community.webtv.net/KevinKunz/JESUSTHEWAY
THANKS!
Subject: Newsletter_29_Feedup_with_Dooms_Day_Predictions
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Pastor Charles Isaac
Good comments.
I have forwarded them to may people!
Pastor Charles Isaac
First Baptist Church
Taylorville IL
Response:
Thanks Pastor, I can always use a good blessing. I will bet you gotta
cool church -David
EVANGELICAL
PASTOR FED UP WITH EVANGELICAL SUB CULTURE
Subject: Newsletter_29I _I_Like_Jesus_But_Not_Fundamentalism
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: "Peg Peters"
I am a pastor in
an evangelical church and I can hardly take it anymore! I am from Canada
and it is just as bad up here with the evangelical sub-culture. Keep up
your excellent work! I came down for the City of Angels film Festival
- I was sad that you were not there? I would be willing to write a review
of the event if you want one.
Rev Randy Peg Peters,
Phd candidate
Simon Fraser University
Vancouver BC Canada
Response:
So sorry for not being at the Film Fest, I was in the hospital and could
not make it. My physical health recently has been real good. I did so
miss the fest and I am sorry to have missed the opportunity of meeting
you. Thank you for your kind words. -David
TOLERANCE
VERSUS LOVE
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: "Nick Alexander" The Catholic "Weird Al"
Hi David!! Always
a pleasure to hear from you. Very good article.
If I have a concern,
it's that, yes, we live in a pluralistic society, and there always seem
to be two responses: either damn all those who don't agree with you, or
tolerate their existence. I think there's a third approach, and that is
to love people who disagree with you. However, to love is a step beyond
tolerance--it's about dialogue. It's about understanding that it's not
logical to have contradictory beliefs sharing their existence in this
wide world of ideas.
Someone who loves
a person with another belief takes great pains to understand the other
person's perspective, and loving them unconditionally--whether they will
convert to Christianity or not. This takes time. This may challenge your
own deeply held beliefs. If you're truly walking with Christ, you should
have no fear.
But tolerance can
be just as bad as intolerance--it's neglect with a happy feel. Treat differing
beliefs with the highest respect by calling them to question where they
differ from yours, with love, with real-honest-love, and not mere toleration-due-to-circumstance.
Nick Alexander
The Catholic "Weird Al"
http://www.nickalexander.com
Response:
Keep on keepin on brother. Love your ministry -David
SELF
CENSORING
Subject: Newsletter_29_Hollywood_Censoring_Hollywood
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Kevin
Hollywood should Cenor
it`s self!
- Kevin
AMERICA
FROM A NEW ZEALAND OF VIEW
Subject: Newsletter_29_Revising.John_3_16
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001
From: Norman
I would like to say
as a non American in general I agree with what you say. I am a Christian
and I live in New Zealand. You will find it on a map east of Australia.
I have not read or
heard anyone in NZ say that the US got what it deserved but myself like
a lot of others cannot see why the US was so blind that they could not
see the hatred many countries have towards the US because of its incredibly
nationalistic policies which assume that the US is always right and that
they are Gods official agents in the world.
Here a fundamental
tenant of Christianity is that we should love our neighbours as ourselves.
That we should treat people like we would want to people to treat us.
This idea seems to be unknown in the US and this causes great amazement
here that a country where an extremely high percentage of people go to
church that this commandment of Christ is ignored or at best watered down.
The comments by your
President on the Kyoto agreement incensed many people outside the US.
He said that he would not sign any document the disadvantaged US business.
This was very selfish. When Regan was in power the US was the only country
in the world not to sign the Marine Resources treaty. Why? Because it
would disadvantage US business.
The US uses something
like a third of the worlds energy. How do Americans justify that?
Madeline Albright
described the deaths of an estimated half-a-million Iraqi children as
a result of Western (US led) sanctions as a 'price worth paying'. Neither
the Government or leader of Iraq has changed their policies so why punish
people who cannot change anything?
For years the US has
backed dictators because it was claimed that they would give a country
stability. With stability would come better trading conditions for US
business. People who opposed these dictators were branded communists.
The US trains and uses terrorists all over the world. Are the people they
kill worth any less to God than US citizens? What is special about American
citizens?
The US does not seem
to have faced up to the fact that they trained the Taliban and that as
recently as May this year they received a large financial grant from the
US.
Where is or was she
Christian outrage at the US supplying biological weapons during the Iran-Iraq
war?
NZ has had bad relationships
with the US for many years as a result of our non-nuclear policy. Should
this happen in a democracy? Why are Australian and NZ farmers practically
forbidden to export meat to the US inspite of the World Trade Organisation
policy that such restrictions are illegal?
The US while claiming
to be a Christian country shows little evidence of being so unless there
is something in it for themselves. Blaming God for what happens is a way
of letting the US not face up to the real issues which I believe are not
religious at all but examples of human greed and selfishness. Of dismissing
the views of others as of no consequence.
Norman
Response:
Thank you Norman. I really appreciate your insights. We in the US are
often short sighted. So thanks again for your insight. -David
DOOMSDAY
CHRISTIANS ARE SPOILED BRATS
Subject: Newsletter_29 _Feedup_with_Dooms_Day_Predictions
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: I Utley
I thought your words
about the WTC tragedy and the Fundamentalist Christian response were apropos.
John 3:17 clearly states that God did not send His son into the world
to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. Christians
have twisted God's message and now promote a message that describes God
as this cosmic bully who beats you into submission to Him through judgment,
tragedy and pain. That's bullshit.
Most importantly,
Christians forget a fundamental message in scripture. God does not discipline
those who are not His children. Hebrews chapter 12 says:
5: And have you
forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons? -- "My son, do
not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when
you are punished by him. 6: For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives." 7: It is for discipline that
you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there
whom his father does not discipline? 8: If you are left without discipline,
in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and
not sons. 9: Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline
us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father
of spirits and live? 10: For they disciplined us for a short time at
their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share
his holiness. 11: For the moment all discipline seems painful rather
than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to
those who have been trained by it. 12: Therefore lift your drooping
hands and strengthen your weak knees, 13: and make straight paths for
your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather
be healed. 14: Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without
which no one will see the Lord.
Consider the lack
of logic in what some Christians teach. They are like a bunch of little
whiny kids mad about the fact that their friends get away with stuff that
they get spanked for. It is like whining to your father about spanking
you for stealing and replying "My best friend from next door Bobby steals
and you don't spank him!" His natural response, as is God's, "Bobby is
not my child. But you are. My children do not steal. I see to that."
The sad thing is,
all the while, Bobby is looking at the relationship you have with your
Dad and longing for a father who would love him enough to teach him right
from wrong and discipline him to help him know the boundaries and become
a better person as well as protect him from the evil in the world. Even
sadder, you have been adopted by your loving father and you know that
if Bobby knew enough to just ask, your loving father would adopt him too.
Yet sadder, your father encourages you to let Bobby know that if he wants,
he can be adopted too, but you are so stuck on yourself that you see to
it that you never mention it or all you do is talk about how your father
is such a strict disciplinarian but you never mention the unconditional
love he has to offer.
Christians are so
f**king spoiled and selfish!
--I Utley
Response:
I like your relational analogy. Very good. -David
THANKS
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: "Mike Furches"
David, I receive numerous
newsletters and many I just delete. Yours I read from cover to cover or
from top to bottom. Again you make me smile, laugh, cry, and pray. I thank
you for your courage to stand for truth and dignity. Can't say for sure
but I betcha that the Lord is pleased a great deal with your work. Keep
it up and keep on sharing the truth. Feel free to use if you want on the
newsletter site.
God Bless & Thanks for helping keep me focused.
Mike Furches
Response:
Thanks Mike, I always appreciat you. -David
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