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RESPONSES
TO NEWSLETTER #29
GOD'S
BUISNESS
Subject: Newsletter_29 Feed up with Doom_Day
Predictions
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Kevin
We should let God
do Gods business. ( ie. Dooms Day.)
Kevin
http://community.webtv.net/KevinKunz/JESUSTHEWAY
A
FUNDAMENTALIST SPEAKS
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Dave
Hi David. A friend
just forwarded your newsletter to me and I just wanted to say a few things
in response.
I do consider myself
to be a fundamentalist evangelical Christian, and I take no shame in that.
I believe that moniker says I believe in the fundamental purity and infallibility
of God's word, the bible.
I don't believe that
Osama Bin Laden is a fundamentalist Muslim. I believe he is a rogue muslim,
and has bastardized the religion in the same ways a David Koresh, a Jim
Jones, or even the KKK does or has done.
I do believe we are
called to tolerate people, but not to tolerate all that people do. Tolerance
has been co-opted as a catch phrase to paint those with a different moral
stand as intolerant, hateful people. God calls us to love everyone, but
hate sin, or to put it a different way, be intolerant of sin. I must acknowledge
I am a sinner and cut the rest of us sinners some slack, but it in no
way does that mean I should embrace other's sin as being acceptable, or
having an 'I'm ok - you're ok' attitude.
Is this the message
of the first portion of your newsletter? Please clarify for me if possible.
As for Hollywood censoring itself, well that's a little curious. I am
privy to some of the editorial decisions we are making with our movies,
but more intimate with how we're changing our publicity of our movies
and how the MPAA and the networks are forcing a change in the publicity
of our movies.
Thank you for your
words. If you have time for some clarity then I would appreciate it.
Sincerely, Dave Theriault
Response:
"Love the sinner and not the sin" is a good motto. I like tough
love. And yes Bin Lauden is off track and dose not represent the Isalmic
view -thank God. -David
COMING
EVENTS
Subject: Newsletter_29_Hollywood_Censoring_Hollywood
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001
From: Teresa
David I can see both
sides. I dont want to seem like one of those people who straddle the fence.
While I agree that we are a great nation, it was Billy Graham himself
who said " If God doesnt judge America soon, He'll have to apologize to
Sodom and Gomorrah." We live in a country of untold freedom, but we've
been afforded that freedom from having a relationship with God. How can
we expect to reap the benefits of his love, but disobey his commandments.
It's not just America under judgement, it's the whole world. America is
just in the spotlight right now, but if you look around you, who's hands
are clean? All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. I'm not
trying to spread gloom and doom, but the rapture is a real event that
will happen and the battle of Armegeddon is a real event that will happen.
There are events that will proceed that battle and we may be living in
that time that sees these events come to pass. I watched "The Seige" recently.
That movie, although made more than 3 years ago, was so prophetic, it
was eerie, I actually thought of you as I was watching it. I will check
out your review of it later, but I wanted to let you know how I felt.
I enjoy your website and you are doing a good work, but the bible is clear
about the fate of this world. Yes, God wins in the end, but all the in
between is not pretty. Keep up the good work. thank you and God bless
you.
Teresa Bourn
Response:
I wish I had reviewed The Seige. -David
JOHN
3:16
Subject: Newsletter_29 Revising John 3:16
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Kevin
BLASPHEME
Kevin
HJ
RECENT ISSUE
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001
From: "Tracy Simmons"
YOU ROCK!!!
thanks for saying it out loud.
- Rev. Tracy Simmons
Anchorage, AK
FALWELL
AND OTHER COMMENTS
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001
From: Price
Mr. Bruce,
I don't agree with Falwell. I thought his words were extremely harsh.
Indeed, I would say if there is any blame to be laid on anyone other than
the terrorists, it's actually to be laid on Christians. It's certainly
not anyone else's fault but our own that people don't have Jesus as Lord
of their lives. How should I expect them to be saved if they have not
heard the Gospel?
And now, for your
comments toward love.
Yes, everyone who's
ever read the Bible would concur. "God is Love!" Well amen!
However, some people,
in their quest to evangelize the touchy-feely let's-not-judge-others world,
have completely forgotten what else God is.
He is a JUDGE as well.
Are these events a
definite act of judgement? You know what, God only knows, and I say leave
it up to Him to say. But, just as one should not say "This is God's judgement,
arrrh, we're all gonna dieeee, lesbians and baby-killers first," one should
ALSO not say, "God will not judge us this way, and anyone who says He
will should go stuff their face in a toilet. And since God is Love, by
George, let's all band together and listen to that annoying 'Smile on
Your Brother' song! Yeehawwww, start the hoedown."
Maybe this is the
beginning of the end. Maybe this is when God pulls the plug and removes
the lamp stand from us because we have left our first Love. When we have
become neither hot nor cold but just lukewarm, when He will spew us from
His mouth and say, "By George, what was that? I was expecting hot water
in this cold winter of a world, but what did I get? I got cruddy lukewarm.
Who put snow in My hot water?!"
***Disclaimer*** Slight
exaggeration of all statements involved. ***Disclaimer***
But I'm sure that
a learned man such as yourself sees that He has no real reason to spare
anyone. I'm sure you've read, as I have many times, "For since the creation
of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood
by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that
they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not
glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts,
and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became
fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made
like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their
hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth
of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than
the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them
up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for
what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use
of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing
what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error
which was due. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
God gave them over to a debased mind, to do these things which are not
fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness,
covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness;
they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters,
inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy,
unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment
of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only
do the same but also approve of those who practice them." Romans 1:20-32.
Just as with Solomon,
when he left the covenant he made with God, and worshiped other gods,
therefore God had no reason to keep up His end of the bargain, and was
no longer bound to blessing Solomon's descendants forevermore.
If we don't keep our
end of the bargain, God has no reason to hold up His end of it, and by
golly, I'd say He's got every right to do whatever the smeg He feels like.
And if He wants to, if He decides to change His mind, and do things not
according to the Bible, more power to Him, it's His prerogative.
But you know He won't.
He's too good for that.
Oh how I hope He takes
us away. I rather do hope this is the end.
You know, for too
long we have allowed ourselves to be tainted by the world, when the Bible
says, "Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD
your God. And ye shall keep my statutes therefore, and do them: I am the
LORD which sanctify you." Leviticus 20:7-8. As well: "But as he which
hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation.
Because it is written, Be ye holy: for I am holy." 1 Peter 1:15-16. This
leads us not only to Leviticus 11:44, where God speaks of not defiling
our bodies with unclean creatures, but also to Leviticus 11:45, where
He reminds us of when He brought us out of Egypt, not only literal to
the Hebrews of this period but also figurative to modern Christians as
well, for Egypt symbolizes the world around us. It says: "For I am the
LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye
shall therefore be holy, for I am holy." As well, Leviticus 19:2: "Speak
unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them,
Ye shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy."
He states repeatedly
throughout the Bible, "Be ye holy! Set apart, sanctified, for Me, for
I am your God, I am Jehovah Elohiym, the Self-Existent, Eternal, and Supreme
God. I am the Self-Existing and Eternal One Who brought you out to be
your Supreme God."
I love movies. My
favorite is Frequency. No better story of
the redeeming (I hesitate to use the word "redemption") of the lives of
a father and son. And the fact that it routinely involves baseball and
the World Series surely doesn't hurt. (Gotta have that baseball.) But
some movies, movies I've loved, are just filled with the most awful language,
the most terribly sinful situations. That's not holy. I admit it: I bring
judgement down on myself: I've not been holy in my thinking, more than
once. Twice maybe? Okay, three times, but no more.
That's a joke.
And sometimes, Mr.
Bruce, sometimes it just doesn't pay to go see a movie where maybe there
are nice parallels betwixt Christian life and the movie. Sometimes, I'd
say it's a coincidence. When the parallels and allegorical twistings get
all muddied up with horrid language and stupid nudey scenes and impure
things, we align ourselves therefore with the world and GASP may I say
it? Is it allowed in this tolerant world to say the word? The devil.
I apologize if anything
I've said angers you. That's not my intention, I only wish as your sister
in Christ to gently correct you on some matters. Okay, now I've rambled
and groused, so here you go, I'm pushing send. And I don't care if you
publish this on your site or not. But if you do, just block out my email
address.
Thanks.
Response:
You are welcome. I appreciate the time you took to respond and post your
thoughts. -David
TIMELY
WORDS
Subject: Newsletter_29 Revising_John_3_16
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001
From: Tammy Herring
Thank you for speaking
out about intolerance in the Christian community. Unfortunately, I was
introduced to the Christian faith by a fundamentalist church I attended
as a child. The negative attitudes and focus on evil, sin, and punishment
followed me into adulthood and made me a very judgmental and unloving
"Christian." Only recently (within the last 5 years) has the true message
of Jesus penetrated my heart and set me free. In the midst of an emotional
and spiritual bankruptcy, I experienced the pure GRACE that Jesus offers,
and I will never be the same again. As followers of Jesus, we need to
also dispense grace and not judgment to a hurting world.
Thank you again for your timely insight.
Response:
You are so right. Thank you for sharing your journey, I appreciate that.
May God continue to bless you. -David
I
AM A CHRISTIAN, BUT...
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Chris Utley
...it's ignorant
views like these that have make me ashamed to call myself a Christian.
i'm sick of so-called Christian leaders and their BS! God is not pleased
with these ignorant comments. yes He allows suffering and there are times
when He does deal with us harshly because of sin. but the events of 9/11
were one group's act of HATE. we as Christians are supposed to combat
hate by sowing seeds of love and peace. but instead, these "Christian
leaders" are sowing the same BS hatred that Bin Laden and his followers
are showing. and all in the name of Jesus? i think not. HE said that the
world will know we're His because of OUR LOVE.
To any non-Christian
who reads this message: don't let Falwell and Pat Robertson and all these
people convince you that Christ doesn't love you. He does. Jesus specializes
in taking broken people and making them whole. He doesn't just heal bodies...He
heals broken spirits. He comforts people who's parents have abandoned
them for making different lifestyle choices. He's a Father to men who's
fathers constantly judge them. He's a mother to those who's mothers are
too preoccupied with "church stuff" to really love them and minister to
them. He loves punk rockers. He loves gangbangers. The world and church
people may call you a slut. He'll love you and restore you to a radiant
woman again. i just want to let you know that He does love you and it's
His pleasure and desire to come into your heart. and He will teach you
who He is and what He wants you to believe. i know Jesus for myself. the
church taught me a few things but the real stuff that i KNOW about Jesus,
He taught me Himself. and i just want to share that with you. Falwell
and all those guys are judgemental idiots. Jesus is love. let Him love
you.
Chris Utley
Response:
Thanks Chris, I appreciate your words of healing, compassion and love.
There are many who can not understand the love of God because of the intolerance
of certain Christians. I hope many will understand the depth of feeling
behind your words. -David
PRAY!
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Kevin
We should Pray that
The LORD'S will be done!.
- Kevin
AGREE
WITH CHRIS WEIGEL
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Paul H
Hi David
I'd like to briefly say that I agree with Chris Weigel's comments in reponse
to your article. The doomsayers have little to recommend themselves, and
John 3 v 16 is absolutely central to our message to the world. It's a
terrible thing that the gospel has been misrepresented in this way by
Christian fundamentalists. However, I would like to advise caution about
thinking that a nation has no need of repentance. If God's chosen people
in the Old Testament were called to repentence again and again, then why
should America, or the United Kingdom (where I live), or any other great
nation for that matter, have no such need? I believe that freedom of speech
is a good thing too; but just because intolerant fundamentalists (Christian
or Moslem) are pointing their fingers in the wrong direction, doesn't
mean that we can assume that our nations are off the hook in living up
to the high standards of God's social justice that Isaiah, Amos, Micah
and others preached about incessantly to Old Testament Israel. I don't
believe that our sophisticated systems of government make our society
any less in need of God's grace and forgiveness than Israel were.
CS Lewis claimed that
"suffering is God's megaphone to a deaf world". Personally, I struggle
with the idea that God would cause suffering for whatever reason, be that
in allowing his wife to die of cancer, or allowing national tragedy to
be brought about by evil men, but I think he has a point. I gather that
part of the reason that this is a confusing concept to modern minds because
of our secularized understanding of cause and effect. There are passages
in the OT where a tragedy is said to have been brought about by "the enemy"
- i.e. the devil - in one chapter, and by the Lord in the next - this
was not a contradiction in Hebrew thought, since all of history, good
and bad, was interpreted in the light of God's sovereignty.
I was helping at a
camp last summer, and I had asked one of the kids to say a bit about why
he came to camp - he came out with something unexpectedly profound. He
said that his best friend had died in a car accident a couple of years
ago, and so he became a Christian, because he had 'no-one else to get
angry with'. To me, this was an unexpected testimony to the difficult
fact that God chooses to use bad situations, often involving the suffering
of innocent people, for good ends. Events that might be expected to alienate
us from God end up bringing us closer to him. The Gallup statistics you
quoted are very encouraging for the same reason - I think events like
this help people to realise how much we all need to rely on God. So I
think we are repenting, and I hope and pray that this continues.
A friend of mine wrote
another thoughtful article on the events of Sep 11, which is worth reading
- http://stocki.ni.org/news/items/item-207.phtml
(It's a great website, by the way, quite similar in outlook to HJ.
I can't think of anyone less 'fundamentalist' - I hope HJ readers would
enjoy his site).
Keep up the good work
- God bless Paul H ***
There's no man so
wicked he cannot come home
Nor so good he passes each test
- John Hiatt
Response:
Thanks Paul for your thoughts. I really like the story of the boy who
became a Christian (turned to God) because he had no one else to be angry
with. -David
VERY
GOOD POINT
Subject: Newsletter_29 Revising John_3_16
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Philb
I won't be cancelling
my subscription. I think you bring up a very good point. The intollerance
of our well meaning but off base brothers and sisters needs to be pointed
out. How brazen for someone to suppose that they could announce the Judgement
of God Almighty on New York City. I forget that the rest of our communities
are so much more in tune and in line with the Scriptures. Get a clue Wilkerson.
God is wanting none to perish but all to come to eternal life. Remember
He loved us knowing we'd choose sin. He loves us with no conditions. It's
not "Change your ways first, then I'll love you." Lucky for me, and all
of us.
Response:
Ah the whole concept of Grace (Unmerited favor and love) is wonderful.
-David
COMMENT
Subject: Newsletter_29 Revising John_3_16
Good article Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: "Brian Terrell"
Good article. I appreciate
your words and thoughts, but I have one complaint. I agree there have
been some in the Christian community who have wrongfully claimed to know
the mind of God and my complaint is not with that subject. At one point
in the article I felt as if you were "name-calling," specifically when
Jerry Falwell was referred to as "Jerry Falafel." I later realized it
must be an over anxious spellchecker as the long-expected collapse of
the computer age, Y2K, became "YAK" and Focus on the Family's host went
from Dobson to "Doubloon" and the Southern Baptist professor and scholar
on Islam, George Braswell, became "George Brawl." Might want to double
check the spellchecker.
Brian Terrell
Response:
Yes indeed. Sometimes the Spell Checker is not a good friend. Thanks,
David
GOD'S
PROTECTIVE HAND HAS BEEN TAKEN AWAY
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: "Mark Campbell"
The events of September
11 have understandably caused great depths of feeling in the Christian
community. But, as with so many issues today, there is more going on here
than simply Good vs Evil. Some see bin Laden is a pawn of Satan out to
attack a tolerant and just America. Others see the Godless America being
attacked by a man who is effectively the agent of God himself. But can
these be the only two possibilities?
I don't believe so.
A third possibility - and I'm sure, if you looked deeply enough, there
are others - is that over time America has turned away from God, letting
the Lord's protecting hand move away from the country. (This is a fault
of the society itself - a society consisting of individual people, you
and me - and not of any specific group or groups.) When God's protective
hand has lifted from something or someone - be it from a country, a church
or a person - then that entity is subject to the World, and all that goes
with it. They are no longer under God's protection.
Bin Laden is an evil
man, an amoral terrorist of the highest order, and it's scarcely feasible
that he could be considered an agent of God. He is not God's punishment
on America - he is an example of what happens when God's protection is
lifted. There is a huge difference. God does not control the Al Qaeda
network (I don't believe he controls any terrorist groups, come to that)
but the actions of that organisation are undoubtedly going to cause more
harm if God's protection is no longer there.
The September 11 attack
was not God's punishment. It was a consequence of a country that has turned
its back on Him. As the 'planes hit the two towers on that bright Tuesday
morning, I believe God was in the depths of despair at Man's inhumanity
to Man, He was mourning real tears over the huge loss of life and of the
terrible chain of events that it would initiate. The last thing in the
world He wanted to see was this terrible tragedy happening to America
- or anywhere else, for that matter. But like a responsible father, He
knew that sometimes a child has to experience the outcome of its wayward
behaviour. However harrowing and painful this might be.
Mark Campbell
Response:
The response of Americans after 9-11 was anything but Godless. I see signs
everywhere saying "God Bless America." Churches were brim full.
There were prayer services everywhere. Even huge ones -like the one in
Yankee Stadium. Billy Graham was asked to preach in the National Cathedral
to a room filled with elected officials from Congress, the Senate and
the Presidency. America is not a Godless society. In Europe less that
1% attend Church. In America we have mega churches with thousands attending
weekly. I totally disagree with your premise. If you where right Sweden,
Denmark, France, England, Germany would have long since disappeared. In
Islamic countries it is against the law to mention Jesus. Why doesn't
God destroy them? Oh but America is some how different and so God allows
the destruction of the WTC by taking his hand of protection away from
it. If that where true why has there not been greater evils since? I hate
to say it but you have been given a bill of goods. There are lots of "ministries"
out there that find great financial reward in blasting America. They love
to quote 2 Chronicles 7:14:
If
my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and
pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I
hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Notice
however, this is addressed to God's people (believers) not nonbelievers.
It is not appropriate to use such passages to condemn America. We are
a diverse people and very different from the theocracy of ancient Israel.
Apples and oranges. Christians need to start with themselves, and not
with outsiders. God is judging the church not the world -that's future.
We need to do something about the false prophets and profiteers among
us. Here are three very good verses from the New Living Bible:
Genesis
18:32 Finally, Abraham said, "Lord, please do not get angry; I will
speak but once more! Suppose only ten (righteous people) are found there
(Sodom)?" And the Lord said, "Then, for the sake of the ten, I will
not destroy it." (So why would God act any different toward America,
God is gracious).
2 Peter
3:9 The Lord isn't really being slow about his promise to return, as
some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not
want anyone to perish, so he is giving more time for everyone to repent.
1 Cor.
5:12-13 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly
is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these
ways. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say,
"You must remove the evil person from among you." (Yet daily
we hear certain Christians in the media judging the world, this needs
to stop. It needs to stop now. We come off as so self righteous and
heartless. May God forgive us).
Thank
you for writing and sharing your thoughts. I appreciate that. -David
PROFESSOR'S
ARTICLE
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Bradley
FYI: A professor of
mine from seminary has written a great article on how Christians should
respond to the attack on 9.11.01 that you might find interesting and worth
passing on to your readers. I enjoy your insights and comments and thought
you might want to get some input from this source that I include for you
below.
Thanks.
Bradley Aucoin
Comfort Within the
Boundaries: Finding One's Voice Regarding Evil [Robert Pyne] http://www.probe.org/docs/comfort.html
The terrorist attacks in New York City and in Washington, D.C. left many
of us with more questions than answers. Pastors, teachers, and counselors
may have an especially difficult time as they attempt to help others while
still processing the news themselves. For this reason, the author, a seminary
professor who has studied the problem of evil in depth, has prepared these
comments as a service to the shepherds.
Response:
Thanks for the good words. -David
BIBLICAL
STUDY ON THE "JUDGMENT OF GOD"
Subject: Newsletter_29
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001
From: Doug
Hollywood Jesus
I did a quick study on the "judgment of God" following the attack - wish
I had my notes to state my thinking using Biblical texts. But in general,
the judgment of God falls on the righteous to turn them to repentence.
So if Falwell and others are considering that this is the judgment of
God, it is not falling on 'others' but on 'them' for failing to do the
will of God. While there are instances in the old testament of the judgment
falling on the wicked, the other meaning is more common.
Second, Malachi says
that before Christ comes the second time he will send Elijah the prophet
(see Malachi 4:5-6). The role of Elijah is to "turn the hearts of fathers
to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers." In other
words, the role of Elijah is to restore broken relationships between earthly
fathers and their children, between the heavenly Father and His children,
and, by further implication, to restore relationships between all people.
America's 'father' is England, with America the rebellious child, but
not only that, America is the child of all nations and can look to all
nations as playing part of the father role to us. God's purposes are to
restore relationships between all his children on earth.
If we have an attitude
of "God is punishing them for being wicked" then we remove ourselves from
others - we stand in judgement against them - we don't reach out to them
because "they are bad." If we have an attitude of love and reconciliation
we draw all people to us - we make ourselves available to all people -
it's up to them whether or not to respond. If anything, we are to have
a judgment of love and respect for all people, not of condemnation.
Response:
Thank you I apprecate your research. I hope many will take notice. -David
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