|
|
|
include("inserts/navigation_upper.htm"); ?>
|
.
.
with comments by David Bruce
|
| I
receive a lot of e-mail. I am not able to post all the mail. I have
included a good sampling, however. If the subject is the same I might
group the newer messages with similar older ones. Also, my response
may appear a few days after the original posting. I can't do HJ everyday.
You must include your "name" and e-mail address within your comment
if you want it posted, otherwise it will not be posted (there is a privacy
issue here and we respect that). I do, however, encourage you to give
your "name" and e-mail so others can respond to you personally.
|
|
E-mail and Comments:
|
|
This
page was last updated on October 7, 2001
|
|
CURIOUS
ABOUT BOB MESSER
Subject: I'm curious- Music_Reviews
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001
From: marc
Who is Bob Messer?
Is he a practicing Christian? Thanks-
|
|
GOT
A PROBLEM WITH THIS...
Subject: Megadeth_The_World_Needs_A_Hero
Date: 12 Sep 2001
From: marc
it appears to me that
for a Christian site, there's quite a bit of non-christian music getting
reveiwed...and it seems to me to be getting loaded into the other end
of the spectrum. Christ is all about love, peace, sharing the Gospel.
The world is about hate, fear, anxiety, death, and destruction. Not saying
you aren't Christians- not at all, tho I do feel it's my responsibility
as a Christian to bring up the point that the lines are getting washed
over a bit; Sure, we can listen to anyhting out there in the world, buy
Black Sabbath cd's, bang your head off at a Megadeth show. It's ultimately
our own decision. But, careful reading of the word would go to prove that
this is'nt the way we, as Christians, are to represent who's service we
are in. I can't see how a Christian would have much credibility showing
up at a Sabbath show, and trying to tell someone Jesus can save them,
as you bang away. Credibility goes out the window, as you have managed
to show the world you are certainly at ease at being in it (the world),
and partaking heartily of it. Biblically, we are in the world, but "seperate
from it". We need to live God's Word, and not throw it around as mere
semantics. What we let in; see, hear, and say, is relfective of what is
in our hearts. I don't mean to be a hard case here, but if we are to live
as Christians, we got compromises to make for the Lord, on His terms,
and certainly not ours. Righteousness won't happen on our own doing; takes
the Holy Spirit to do this, and if you allow yourself to partake of the
world's stuff, that exudes hate, fear, temptation, etc., the Holy Spirit
will not be there. Sin and the Holy Spirit can not be in the same place;
you are either in or you'r e going out. I ask that you would pray for
some guidance in this, choices in music, movies, etc., and ask the Lord
to direct our feet, and light our paths. Don't be fooled by the evil one;
he does everything he does thru deception, and he is the very best at
it. Be on guard; guard your heart, and seek the guidance of Jesus. God
Bless you all, get out there and share the Word with a stranger- in a
pub, in a club, on the street. It's outside the church where the real
growth happens.
Marc
|
|
BETTIE
STUFF
Subject: Bettie stuff Bettie_Page
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001
From: marc
I thank the Lord that
He has moved in Ms. Page's life with such a tremendous impact- I hope
that she and her church will continue to utilize the popularity of the
images she was part of to somehow show the secular world that Jesus can
save lives (everyone's), and is indeed a real person.
I do hope the lines
don't get blurred here in chasing the image of Bettie Page's pre-Christian
life to the point of being detrimental to one's understanding of Christianity,
and the Biblical (God's) view of iniquity and it's total lack of righteousness.
If we're not careful here, folks may be led to believe that the images
that abound in the world glamourizing nudity and leading to iniquitous
behaviour and temptation, are "OK, cause it's a Christian woman". We have
to remember, this was before Ms. page became a Christian, and the popularity
of those images grew without her knowledge of, or involvement with, the
phenomenon.
We as Christian's
are truly "in the world", and it's our reponsibility to spread the Lord's
Word in a righteous manner, and in an uncompromising righteous fashion;
let's not allow the lines to blur between what the Bible profeesses to
be be righteous in the Lord's view, and what is permissible in ours. See
Solomon, for a bit of background on this- I pray the Lord blesses all
who read this, and that He conmtinues to move in our lives to spread His
Gospel- I thank the Lord that this site is on line, and continue with
it!
Thanks for the poortunity to say a bit!
|
|
CHOP
SUEY
Subject: Chop Suey
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001
From: Joel Stjernholm
I know this is more
of your music department's thing, but since you are the one who's name
came up, you get the e-mail. I have been listening to System of a Down's
"Chop Suey!", and I am getting a serious good friday vibe off of it. Are
they a Christian band, and what is the song really getting at? If you
could post a review or simply email me back, i would be very grateful.
Joel Stjernholm
|
|
HARRY
POTTER DOES NOT PROMOTE WICCA
Subject: Harry Potter
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001
From: Leah D
My name is Leah i'm
twelve years old and i read Harry Potter i also know a lot about wicca
and it makes me laugh that people say this book premotes wicca true thay
cast spells use cauldrons and wands but nothing else really promotes wicca
exept maybe peoples names but when i read these books i don't think satanism,
wicca i think comical childish stories that are fun to read. Harry Potter
books don't promote any religion wot so ever and have little to do with
Wiccans.
Another thing most
of the people who want to ban these books in school have either not read
the books or know little or nothing about the Craft these people think
wicca they think Satanism and on the rare occasion they bother to give
actual quotes from the book there incomeplete or they have twisted the
meanings. So all i have to say to these people read all the books learn
about theses religions before you say they promote things or even better
leave the books alone and get a life.
Leah D
|
MEGADETH
Subject: Megadeth_The_World_Needs_A_Hero
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001
From: travis
Why is this evil?
I did not see any evil in it, a bit disturbing album cover, but Dave Mustaine
and Megadeth do not put lyrically substanisial evil in this.
I'm guessing that
this previous response is from one those people who heard that all things
metal are Sataninc from a televangilist who hid his own subliminal messages
in songs to "prove" his point, like they did with Led Zeppelin.(Stairway)
You holier than thou
types make me sick.
|
|
JEWISH
HERO?
Subject: superman isn't a jewish hero
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001
From: matt
this is the most retarded
thing i've ever read. superman isn't a jewish hero if he's compared to
Christ. Christ was killed by jews and romans on the cross. thus creating
a new religion often referred to as Christianity. Duh.
Response:
Mario Puzo has a Catholic background. All legends have an evolution. What
is your point?
|
|
HONG
KONG FILMS
Subject: Hong Kong Films
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001
From: Michael
I have long enjoyed
Hollywood Jesus for your deep and profound insights into film spirituality.
Almost all of your reviews have been of mainstream American films; however,
I was wondering if you might be willing to try a bit of something different.
There are two very good Hong Kong fantasy films that are my favorites:
Chinese Ghost Story I and II. If you are interested in reviewing them,
I could send you a copy on DVD. Of course, since these are Chinese films,
they are based on a Chinese worldview instead of a Christian one. Based
on your other reviews, though, I know that's never stopped you before.
If you'd like to get a taste of what Hong Kong has to offer, E-Mail me
and I'll send you the films. Keep up God's work!
Michael
Response:
Thanks -David
|
|
MY
TWO CENTS WORTH
Subject: American_Beauty
Date: Mon, 10 Sep
From: James
i am new to the HJ
site, but love the concept let me say first off! I have not read every
post on AB thoroughly, but people seemed to have missed what was one of
the, if not THE, main messages in the film for me - Kevin Spacey finaly
realising that he was searching for happiness in the wrong place - that
he was projecting his real needs onto his daughter's friend (sorry it
has been a while and cant remember all the names now! must see it again
soon).
|
|
OK
OK ITS ABOUT THE SCENE ON THE ROOF
Subject: Devils_Advocate
Date: Mon, 10 Sep
From: Shawn
in the bible satan
tempts Jesus...he takes him to the top of the temple and says something
to the affect of, "if you jump your angels will come and grab you so that
you wont strke a foot on a rock" Jesus then responds with biblical quotes
and they move on to the next temptation. i hope that helps
|
|
NUDITY
IN AMERICAN BEAUTY
Subject: American_Beauty
Date: Sun, 9 Sep
From: "Jon Senior"
I've just looked at
your site for the first time after seeing it featured in a Shawshank
Redemption documentary, and (to be honest), it's a much better experience
than I thought it would be - contains a great deal more open minded-ness
than many a Christian website would - only the title, perhaps, is a deterrent,
but that's a cultural difference, I guess!
Anyhow, it's late,
and I'm not awake enough to write much, but I just thought I'd drop in
my thoughts on the nudity in American Beauty. For all some have commented
on it's graphic extremes, I find the opposite to be true, and I think
the nudity is actually handled in an unusual and thought provoking way.
When Jane undresses for Ricky in the window, it's hardly an erotic act
- it's her attempt to make a connection with another human being. The
film has already shown her alienation from the people around her, and
it is as if she simply cannot think of another way to express herself.
This may be disturbing, even uncomfortable, but it's hardly arousing!
When Angela is uncovered by Lester towards the end of the film, it seems
to me to be one of those rare occasions when the nudity is fully justified
by the context. Lester is finally achieving his dream, but when the moment
comes, the 'sex-object' of his fantasies becomes a vulnerable, nervous
person, little more than a child. It is at this point that Lester realises
that everything he's worked towards in the film has been misguided and
worthless. Little coincidence, I think, that after this encounter, his
thoughts turn to his daughter, and her needs - albeit in the brief time
when he remains alive.
I think American Beauty
is a truly fantastic film. It may seem bleak, and perhaps it is bleak,
but it's also inspiring. The characters are all on a path for something
greater than what they are. All try different ways of achieving this,
and all ultimately fail. People have complained that none of the characters
turned to God and found fulfilment, but that's what happens in life. After
all, if Lester had had sex with Angela and suddenly become happy, or if
Caroline had divorced Lester to start a new life, and suddenly become
happy, this surely would have been worse - the characters achieving happiness
without God.
Anyhow, my brain won't
process much more at this stage of the day! Keep up the work!
Jon Senior
Response:
I totally agree with you. -David
|
|
ANOTHER
POINT OF VIEW
Subject: Blade Runner
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001
I read your review
and found it interesting; I think some of the symbology is a little heavy-handed,
but generally well made. I would just like to point out that as Batty
kills Tyrell, he pushes his thumbs through the eyes, destroying them;
perhaps (and maybe I am reading too much into this) so that he would not
be "seen" to do evil by his creator?
|
|
SUPERMAN
IS NOT CHRIST, BUT ANTICHRIST
Subject: Superman
Date: Sat, 8 Sep
From: Chris
I am very thankful
for your site, because you have -- however unwittingly -- exposed a devilish
deception. Obviously, I disagree with your conclusions about Superman
being a type of Jesus Christ -- especially in the 1978 film, and I will
tell you why. To understand this argument, you must understand Isaiah
14:12-15. This passage states: "How are thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer,
son of the morning ... For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend
into Heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I WILL
BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH." The key is in the final words: "I (Lucifer) will
be like the Most High." Satan spends most of his time imitating the things
of God -- counterfeiting them, if you will. If you study Satan's titles
in the Bible, you will see that this is so. He is called the "Anointed
Cherub," in Ezekiel 28:14. The word "Anointed" means "Christ." Satan is
literally the "Christ Cherub." This may also be a reference to his position
as Anti-Christ. The Greek word "anti" has two meanings: it means "against,"
and it also means "instead of" or "another." Therefore, the anti-Christ
is "another" Christ. There is a man who currenly bears this title. The
Latin equivalent of "anti" is "vicarius." One of the Pope's titles is
Vicarius Christi, the Vicar of Christ. If you handed this title to a Greek
translator, he would hand you back the word "Antichrist." This is not
slander, but is a simple fact -- which might be pertinent when you consider
that Mario Puzo (one of the writers for the film) is a Roman Catholic.
(Response: So, what you are saying is: because the Pope is "antichrist"
it follows that Superman is also because writer Mario Puzo is Catholic.
Hmm. You need to know that Catholics are not anti-Christ. In fact, they
are pro-Christ. It is you who is anti-Catholic)
I find it also curious
that Richard Donner (the director) had just finished working on "The Omen,"
a horror film (however inaccurate) about the Antichrist. (Yes,
but the film was against the Antichrist, and was very pro-Christ. You
are making a case by mere appearances). Are these both coincidences?
Maybe. But then another interesting detail comes up: the film is given
a favorable review from Communist China. Why? Since when does it matter
what China thinks about a film? But this review somehow makes it to a
place of recognition. China outlaws the Bible, except for the government
"edited and approved" versions, and is one of the greatest persecutors
of Christian martyrs in the world. If you do your homework, you will learn
that Communism was bankrolled by the Vatican at its beginnings, and continues
to be manipulated from Rome. I believe it is no accident that the godless
Chinese government gave a favorable review to the anti-Christ rendition
of the Gospel story. Check it out. (Holy cow! You do
hate Catholics! You are accussing them of controlling communism and killing
Christians! I think your argument of Superman being Antichrist has fallen.
You are losing credibility)
Now let's talk about
some of the symbolism in the movie. You've written about how "... the
father becomes the son, and the son the father," concerning the relationship
of Superman with his father. This is a curious detail if you have studied
the occult. In the Babylonian Mystery Religion, this is basically a description
of the relationship between Nimrod (the father) and Tammuz (his son).
According to the legend, Nimrod was the king of Babylon (he also built
the tower of Babel, upon which Babylon was built), and he was married
to Semiramis. To make a long story short, Nimrod was killed and some time
after, Semiramis bore a son -- all the while insisting that she was a
virgin. She named the child Tammuz and claimed that he was the reincarnation
of Nimrod. Some versions of this story even claim that Tammuz went on
to marry his mother, symbolizing that "the father becomes the son, and
the son the father." These were the early attempts of Satan counterfeiting
the things of God, by creating a false Trinity. If you read the book,
"The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop, (a very hate
filled book against the Catholics -filled with inaccuracies, as you are)
you will learn that this basic Trinity doctrine was carried to Egypt where
it became the story of Osiris, Isis, and Horus. It also went to many other
parts of the world, and reached its climax in Rome. When Constantine the
Great overtook the Roman empire and declared Christianity to be an official
religion, the pagans came into the church, and gave their pagan gods "Christian"
titles. Will Durant in his "Story of Civilization" writes: "An intimate
and trustful worship of saints replaced the cult of pagan gods ... Statues
of Isis and Horus were renamed Mary and Jesus ..." Other sources go on
to reveal that the famous statue of St. Peter is a revised version of
the ancient god, Jupiter, and it goes on and on. This is significant when
you consider the Vatican's potential involvement in this film. The Babylonian
Mysteries are the foundation of the Roman Catholic faith. (OK,
Let me get this straight. You say, the Vatican was involved in making
Superman? I must tell you that your credibility is sinking even more than
it was)
Why does Clark Kent
(in disguise) work for a newspaper? Perhaps because the Vatican controls
the media and the American press? (What? Oh my gosh.
The Vatican controls the American media? I think you have totally bottomed
out now) This may be a reflection of how Vatican agents work within
the confines of a free society to manipulate the information system, which
has not been a "free press" for at least a hundred years. You can quickly
check out William Randolph Hearst, (who was supposedly paid $400,000 a
year by Adolf Hitler to print favorable articles about Germany and the
Nazis just before the war), and quickly realize that the papers were deceptively
controlling the thoughts of the people. Hitler himself was supported by
the Vatican -- the Jesuits in particular -- which is supported by many
books (hate books, you mean) -- some of the
best are from Dave Hunt, and Avro Manhattan. For more info. you might
read "Vatican Assassins" by Eric Jon Phelps (a hate
book). If you read "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome" by former
Catholic priest, Charles Chiniquy, you will learn that the Vatican was
controlling American newspapers even in the days of Abraham Lincoln.
"Eve saves Superman."
Isn't this interesting. Eve it was who was deceived by the Serpent in
the garden of Eden. It was Eve who gave the forbidden fruit to her husband
(Adam) and helped to bring about the curse upon humanity. Eve is glorified
among Mormons for leading mankind toward the knowledge of good and evil,
which this cult believes is the path to salvation. I am certainly not
against this woman, who is called "the mother of all living" (Genesis
3:20) -- but do not mistake the placement of her name in this story. (Eve
in the film is a type of Mary of Magdeline, a sinner, not a saint. Please
view the film again).
Next, to solve the
great problem of "death," Superman turns things backwards. This is a very
telling statement if you study the writings of Aleister Crowley -- a famed
Satanist, and master of the occult. Crowley taught the "backwards" system
of Satanic worship. He taught that Satanists should write backwards, talk
backwards, and even walk backwards. When the Satanic church holds a black
mass, they say the "Our Father" prayer of Jesus backwards. This is why
so many rock bands write their names backwards on their album covers,
and even recorded satanic messages backwards on the records themselves.
So now, the movie Superman tells us that the path to life is to turn things
backwards. Coincidence? Furthermore, according to the Bible, the Antichrist
will "... think to change the times and the laws ..." (Daniel 7:25) If
you compare this with Daniel 2:21, where the prophet says of God, that
He: "... changeth the times and the seasons," you will see that -- once
again -- Satan is seeking to "be like" God. (Oh my,
Satanist walk backwards and talk backwards? Come on! Get real. This is
so much nonsense aimed at the so called back masking dangers of pop music.
This is anti-Rock and Roll rubbish)
Perhaps the most obvious
Antichrist reference is the title of the character himself: Superman.
Adolf Hitler referred to him as the "Ubermensch" -- the Superman, the
Elite of the Race, the Lord of the Earth. This was taken from Nietzsche's
"Thus Spake Zarathustra" where he wrote: "Behold I teach you the Superman.
The Superman is the meaning of the Earth. Let your will say: the Superman
shall be the meaning of the Earth. I beseech you, brothers, remain faithful
to the earht, and do not believe those who speak to you of unworldly hopes
..." Nietzche was also an adamant hater of Christianity, saying, "I condemn
Christianity" in his work "The Antichrist." Trevor Ravenscroft, in his
book "The Spear of Destiny" gives us a bizarre quote from Adolf Hitler
in his adoration of the Superman, recorded from "Hitler Speaks," by Hermann
Rauschning. This is how it reads:
"The air became stifling
so that I could barely breathe. The noisy scene of the Treasure House
seemed to melt away before my eyes. I stood alone and trembling before
the hovering form of the Superman (Ubermensch) -- a Spirit sublime and
fearful, a countenance intrepid and cruel. In holy awe, I offered my soul
as a vessel of his will." (Superman has Jewish roots.
Not Nazi roots. You are an amazingly hate-filled person. I think you may
be dangerous. You seem to hate Catholics, Mormons, rock artists, and New
Agers. Hate is not good my misguided friend)
The New Age Movement
is the strongest promoter of the New Age Superman, the Cosmic Christ,
and sometimes called "Lord Maitreya" in occult circles. The real clincher
comes when you learn that the "Father of the New Age" is a Jesuit priest
named Teilhard Chardin. When Marilyn Ferguson wrote her famous book, "The
Aquarian Conspiracy," Teilhard Chardin was the name most frequently mentioned
by 185 leaders in the New Age movement when asked who the most influential
person in their lives was. Chardin was treated as an apostate by the Vatican
in his lifetime, but "returned to the good graces of Rome 26 years after
his death." Why is this significant? Because it shows the Vatican influence
behind the New Age movement. Jesuits don't get kicked out of the Catholic
faith -- they're the ones running the show. It's no accident that Teilhard
Chardin was "returned" to good graces after his death. (So,
let me get this straight. You are saying that the Vatican is responsible
for Communism, Adolph Hitler, and the New Age movement? You are dangerous)
If you love God, and
our Lord Jesus Christ, then learn all that you can in these treacherous
times. Remember that the Lord has told us: "My people are destroyed for
lack of knowledge." (Hosea 3:6). The apostle Paul also warned the Church
of receiving "another Jesus" (2 Corinthians 11:4) -- and so we ought to
be careful what manner of gospel is presented to us. We ought to be very
careful about a Jesus that is loved by the world. Why? Because Jesus told
us clearly that the world hates Him, (John 7:7) and so it is not likely
that the world will in any way present a favorable version of His story.
The versions of Jesus' story in the media, and entertainment industry
are more and more corrupt every year. Read the Bible. And if you really
want to know the truth, do some homework and find out which Bible you
ought to read. Jesus sent his disciples out as sheep among wolves. He
warned us to be as harmless as doves, and wary as serpents. We are to
take heed that no man deceives us by any means. I would hearken all believers
to the first passages of the Book of Jude, where he compels the church
to "earnestly contend" for the faith. He gives this exhortation under
the compulsion of the Holy Spirit, for the Church to withstand the false
teachers who have "crept in unawares." (So the true
test of being a Christian is to think like you? To hate like you? To use
the Bible to justify hate, as you do? You are a very sick indidvidual.
Please stay away from weapons. You can not be trusted)
May God our Father
guide all those who seek and earnestly desire to know the Truth.
Peace in Jesus, Chris
Response:
I do not believe in your type of "Jesus." Your hate filled Jesus
is of your own making and imagination. Please get some serious help, before
you hurt someone. I pray you do not own a gun and that there are no Catholics
living near you. -David
|
|
INSPIRATION
Subject: Pearl_Harbor
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001
From:
I would like to respond
to David Bruce's review of Pearl Harbor. First of all, I absolutely hate
this movie, but that bears no influence on my comments. Bruce said one
of the most tremendous scenes in the film was when Roosevelt stood up
to show the military leaders what could and couldn't be done. This scene
was the worst scene in the movie and in my opinion, the worst scene in
film history. It's strictly manipulative crap and a far cry from anything
possible. He never could have stood up out of that chair, and I think
it's irresponsible of the filmmakers to imply that he could. It's very
similar to the commercial with Christopher Reeve, where he is shown walking.
It's all very manipulative and very much a Hollywood addition to the movie.
The attack scene was very well done, but the rest of the movie is horrible.
The reality of the movie is extremely minimal and most of the survivors
of the attack don't like the movie. Unlike Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's
List, the movie takes real, tragic events and gritters them up to get
people to enjoy the movie. Both of the other movies portray things realisticly
and have gone down as two of the greatest movies in film history. Hopefully,
Pearl Harbor will only go down as a joke and another failed attempt at
a worthwhile Bruckheimer film.
|
|
|
You
are on Comments page 109
|
Index
to all the comments May 03 to Sep 12, 2001
|
For
more recent comments click here
Go to page 109 Sep 08-12, 2001
Go to page 108 Sep 01-07, 2001
Go to page 107 Aug 30-31, 2001
Go to page 106 Aug 26-29, 2001
Go to page 105 Aug 24-25, 2001
Go to page 104 Aug 21-23, 2001
Go to page 103 Aug 18-20, 2001
Go to page 102 Aug 12-17, 2001
Go to page 101 Aug 07-11, 2001
Go to page 100 Aug 03-06, 2001
Go to page 99 Aug 01-02, 2001
Go to page 98 July31, continued
Go to page 97 July28-31, 2001
Go to page 96 July 20-27 2001
Go to page 95 July16-19, 2001
Go to page 94 July 07-15, 2001
Go to page 93 July
01-06, 2001
Go to page 92 June 23-30, 2001
Go to page 91 June 20-22, 2001 |
Go
to page 90 June 15-19, 2001
Go to page 89 June 13-14, 2001
Go to page 88 June 12, coninued
Go to page 87 June 11-12, 2001
Go to page 86 June 11, coninued
Go to page 85 June 11, 2001
Go to page 84 June 10, coninued
Go to page 83 June 10, coninued
Go to page 82 June 09-10, 2001
Go to page 81 June 03-08, 2001
Go to page 80 June 01-03, 2001
Go to page 79 May 29-31, 2001
Go to page 78 May 24-28, 2001
Go to page 77 May 22-23, 2001
Go to page 76 May 22 coninued
Go to page 75 May 12-21, 2001
Go to page 74 May 06-11, 2001
Go to page 73 May 03-05, 2001
For earlier comments click here
|
|
Your
Comments.
Post your thoughts for all to read.
Please include your "name." I will not post your e-mail
address unless you want me to.
CLICK HERE
Comments_E-mail
Your
Private Comments.
I will not post these comments. What are your personal thoughts?
I also welcome your spiritual concerns and prayer needs. I will
correspond with you, usually within two weeks.
CLICK HERE
Private_Comments_E-mail
Hollywood
Jesus News Letter
Receive the Hollywood Jesus Newsletter FREE.
Sign up here
|
|
| |
|
|