—Overview
—Trailers, Photos
—About this Film pdf
—Spiritual Connections
The following text includes comments from two separate interviews.
Steve Saint is the son of Nate Saint, a missionary who was killed by the Waodani. He has been working extensively with the Waodani throughout his life to help them develop and modernize their culture.
Mart Green is the CEO, Founder, and Executive Producer for Every Tribe Entertainment, a full feature film production company which produced Beyond the Gates of Splendor.
I wish to extend my sincere thanks to these men for their time and stories!
Interviewer: I’ve got to tell you, everybody I talk to, when I tell them about the film, the first thing they say is, “Are you sure? They weren’t mad at them? They didn’t have any resentment? The storyline they accept, and then that’s the first trip up. I’m sure that’s the reaction you get, though�
Steve Saint: The question people usually ask me is “How did you forgive these people? And really, the honest truth is I didn’t. I mean, it never occurred to me, really, that there was anything to forgive. Now, that wasn’t because of some great altruism. It was just that before my dad was killed, I remembered how excited Dad was, hoping to be able to contact these people so that they wouldn’t be killed by the oil companies or the government. And then after my dad was killed, you know, kids follow their parent’s clues. I mean, you sit around and your dad’s cheering because some guy just knocked the stuffings out of someone else trying to catch a football in the air, and what do you say? …I mean, that’s brutal, but you grow up thinking, “That’s great, man, what a great hit!� …My aunt loved these people. She was willing to risk her life to go and live with them. My mom was praying for them, my dad…I just couldn’t wait to meet them. I think it’s just a heritage that people don’t understand… So, um, I can tell you this, I watched very carefully, I watched my mom and these other four women and I never, ever, ever noticed or sensed any resentment. Now sad, oh, yeah, I mean their lives, can you imagine how devastated? I was devastated. My hero, I watched him fly off into the jungles one morning and he never came back… I never saw any resentment or anger towards the Waodani and I never saw any resentment or anger towards God, which is even maybe the bigger deal.
Interviewer: How many years did you live with the Waodani when you were young?
Steve Saint: You know we like to make stories grander than they are. I first went in to live with my aunt with the Waodani when I was nine and it would have been in the summer. And then I went to school up in Quito in the capital city. So, I only got to go out there summers, Christmas vacation and sometimes in between. But, I never spent years and years with the Waodani…The man who had started that airlines was a friend of my dad’s. He had helped him keep his planes running. So, I could just go out, jump on the plane, didn’t have to have a ticket or anything, and just fly down to the jungles and visit my Aunt Rachel. And I loved doing it. I mean, hunting and fishing every day. No rules. Nobody except Aunt Rachel to tell me what to do, and she couldn’t walk that well, so…(laughter). She spent her life with the Waodani…
Interviewer: Talk a little bit about the fact that now it’s your son that gets to go back….now there’s a third generation that’s had contact.
Steve Saint: Fourth! My parents, mine, and my sisters and brothers, and some of the other kids. Although I have had much, much more contact than any of the others…I was in the second generation. Then, Jenny’s and my children loved the Waodani, and the Waodani just absolutely loved them. Especially, well, they all have been given tribal names. Then, our grandchildren…in fact, I’m going down Thursday because we have a new grandchild. Actually, we have two new grandchildren, and the Waodani DEMAND to see them. (laughter)
Interviewer: How many of the Waodani have come to the U.S. now?
Steve Saint: …Oh actually about 10…my aunt came up with Kimo and Dawa and Dayuma. And then Gikita has been here, and I’ve come with Tementa and Mincaye. There’s been three or four more that have come with environmental people. And there may be some others that I don’t know about. But, you know, just a few. Mincaye has been the only one who’s come up here and really traveled. He’s been up here with me six times, been in Canada four times and been in Europe once. Which, if you want to know what our country’s really like, then you need to travel with Mincaye. (laughter) He’d be afraid to get on the elevator. Escalators are terrifying…Those stories go on and on. I was telling Randy about going to a football game. I’d better not start that! (laughter)
Interviewer: What would you say inspired this film? Did you want to do a film on it? How did the film actually start taking shape?
Steve Saint: When my son Jessie was graduating from high school, he and Stephanie wanted me to bring grandfather Mincaye up for the graduation…which is totally impossible. He had no passport and no visa, and those people, I mean, I’m an Ecuadorian citizen...and I have been trying to renew my Ecuadorian passport. I’ve had an attorney working on it for a year and a half. And so, to get that passport, you have to have served in the Ecuadorian military…you have to go through a lot of rigamarole and red tape to do it…and so, it was impossible and we had one day to do it [get Mincaye’s passport]. I was just gonna make a token effort and get turned down.
And when we went down to the U.S. Embassy and I was filling out the form, they wanted to know your full name. And Mincaye’s full name is Mincaye…they want to know where your bank account is. The only bank Mincaye knows is where he pulls his canoe up…they want to know what your profession is, and there was nothing, address, telephone number. The only thing I could find to fill out on the whole thing was occupation, so I put “hunter/ gatherer.� And we were number ga-zillion. The consulate was just packed with people… I heard somebody [worker behind the bulletproof glass] say, “Hey, get a load of this. Occupation hunter/gatherer.� …So we went up and said, “Did you call for the hunter gatherers?� He said, “What’s your number? Oh, no, you won’t even get an interview today.�…but the Consulate was walking by…and he said, “I’ll take this interview.� So the Consulate himself sat down and started asking me questions. He said, “You know, I was in the Peace Corps here years ago. I read about some people who killed some missionaries…Everybody is always worried about what happened to the people on this side, but I always wondered what happened to those people that killed the missionaries.� And I said, “Well, one of them is looking at you through the bullet proof glass.�…He asked, “Why do you want to take the man who killed your father to the states?� You know, looking for some exploitation or something…And he said, “I’ll tell you what, I’m going to have to stick my neck out a long way to do this…but if you’ll come back this afternoon when the consulate closes, I’ll give you a one-time visa on the condition that you travel with him.� …That was ten o’clock in the morning and we had until three o’clock in the afternoon when the consulate closed. And [we] got all those papers, really, years worth of paperwork in five hours and got back there and got a visa and came to the states.
After the graduation, I had a speaking engagement up in Pennsylvania. I was going to speak about this story. I thought, boy, I’m going to go up there and speak about this. Mincaye is right here! So, I said, “Hey, let’s make a road trip.�…That first time that we spoke together, a businessman in the auditorium heard us speak. He started thinking about Columbine and some of the things, I mean… read the newspaper! He said, “People here are living just like Mincaye…� Mart [Green] thought, “Our culture needs to hear this too.�
Mart Green: The first time that I met Steve and Mincaye would have been June 14, 1997. It was at a Wycliffe associates meeting….I was there in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and heard them speak, and just was amazed. I had heard the Through Gates of Splendor. I knew the story pretty much from the N. American point of view, and knew about Jim Elliot and loved the story, but never really thought about what happened to the six guys that killed the five. Where are they at? Kinda what I’d call… the other side of the story. And so I hear Steve speak and all of a sudden he brings up on stage one of the six guys who killed the five, one of the men who killed his dad…I knew that the oldest person in 1956 was 33 in the tribe. So, this was, you know, almost forty something years later. You have to assume they were all dead, because they didn’t live to be 33 years old. And then he brings up Tementa, which he was also in the story at the end there… So it was quite impacting to see the man standing on stage with the man who was responsible for his dad’s death [Mincaye], and the other one who was the son of the man who lied who caused his death [Tementa]. And he’s got his arms around him, and generally seemed to really love these guys. And when you hear his story of how he moved his family to go live with them, I mean, this is not some, “I’ll forgive you, but I hope I never see you again� kind of story. It’s, “I’ll forgive you and I’m gonna move my family, four kids, with no electricity and running water to Ecuador and live in a hut with you.� So I guess the word “reconciliation,� down to one word, it was the most amazing reconciliation story I’d probably heard.
My passion is four words: I’m on planet earth for four words: This Book is Alive -- meaning God’s Word. I believe this Book is alive. I believe the best way to portray that is through the life you live, and Mincaye was one of the greatest examples I’d ever heard of going from the most violent societies to living in peace. It was God’s Word that transformed his life.
So, little did I know that I’d get involved in the project. At that point, I assumed the guy in Tulsa would just get the tape, listen to it, and God would move on his heart to make the movie. But that’s not the way it went.
Interviewer: So, how did you end up with the project on your hands?
Mart Green: It was October of the next year, of 1998, when a guy [in Tulsa, OK] told me he really hoped to make a movie of that story someday, talking about what I’d call the North American story…So I sent him that tape to listen to of that event [Steve and Mincaye’s speech at Wycliffe]. I thought, well, I’d better listen to that tape again, so I was re-listening to that tape, and was driving down the road and Mincaye said, “We acted badly, badly.� - which they did. They were the most violent society ever recorded. There’s nobody more violent than the Waodani – 60% homicide rate for five generations…So, “We acted badly, badly until they brought us God’s carvings…� which is what Elisabeth Elliot and Rachel Saint represented when they went back in. “…and now we walk his trail.� So, I literally just wept in the parking lot and called my friend. I said, “This is going to be a movie someday, but it’s not going to be a movie about what I call the ten American heroes, that being the five men and the five women. It won’t be about the ten American heroes’ story. It’ll be- what happened to the six guys that killed the five.�
…[Six months later in 1999] I was actually working on a commercial campaign. I call it a “Milk Campaign on God’s Word.� That’s the best way I can explain it… All I knew was, wow, would this movie about God’s Word transforming the most violent society help our cause! I’m not gonna do it, but if this guy will do it, he’ll help my cause...Well, on May 9, 1999, the guy I called from the Wal-mart parking lot, the president of the four Bible Agencies, had asked for a copy of the tape too…He listens to the tape and he says, “Man, I’ve been listening to the tape and I’ve been weeping. You gotta do the movie.�…I said, “Yeah, yeah, I remember that. I told you the guy in Tulsa - that was his dream…call him, don’t call me.� So, he challenged me to get Steve Saint’s address….
I said, “I’m not gonna call Steve Saint out of the blue. I mean, this is the most well-known missionary over the last hundred years. I just saw him from the audience. I don’t know Steve. I think he lives in Ecuador, and besides that, I was raised not to go to movies. I’ve never been in a movie theater. So, I’m not calling him.� So, I no more hung up and the next phone call is my guy from Wycliffe. If I’m going to call and get Steve Saint’s address, the guy that I would call is on the phone right now. And I knew my conscience - I can’t go to sleep tonight if I don’t at least ask this guy for Steve Saint’s address…of course, I’m hoping he can’t get it... And of course, three hours later, I’ve got Steve Saint’s address…So, ironically, two years to the night, to June 14, 1997, on June 14, 1999, two years, to the day, to the night, I’m in Steve Saint’s home asking for the right to do the film.
On the Waodani’s unwillingness to do the film…
Steve Saint: [Talking to Mart Green that night in 1999] I said, “Everybody starts here. Nobody thinks about asking the Waodani their part of the story. I’ll tell you what, if you want to ask them, I’ll take you down there, introduce you and I’ll translate.�…They all came with me and we asked the Waodani and the Waodani said, “No.�
They said, “The foreigners always, always come. They want to take pictures of us, they want to take video…but they don’t talk to us. Then, they go and tell what they want to say about us. So, we say no.�…I said, “Let me tell you why they want to do this.� And I told them what had happened in Columbine that these two boys had gone in “ononke�, for no reason, and just started killing other people. And Mincaye said, “That’s JUST how we used to live. For no reason, we just speared and speared, hating and afraid. We were killing everybody. I say, are the foreigners living like that?� Of course, he had been up here already…he just kept asking to see documentaries of the foreigners killing each other. And he’d watch and he’d just shake his head. He said, “We would kill people that we hated, but we would never kill people that we never knew. Why would you kill somebody that you didn’t hate?� And yet, he’d see bombers flying over and he’d say, “How can you see those people that you’re killing?� And then he saw the concentration camps and he was so repulsed by that, that he couldn’t even deal with it. That someone would keep somebody alive and not feed them, that was beyond his comprehension…so he said, “If the foreigners are living that way, then you tell them, you show them how we used to live. And then you show them that now, look, we live happily and at peace.�
…I thought, “I need to warn them. If you say yes, they’re going to show you like you used to live, naked with just a string with your earplugs in.�- which was embarrassing to them. Because they knew, they weren’t embarrassed of being naked, but they were embarrassed of what people thought of them. The people called them Auca’s which means “naked savages.� The connotation is almost animal-like. I said, “They will show you like you were.�…Mincaye’s wife, Ompodae, has been listening to this. She whips off her blouse, pulls off her skirt, she’s sitting there in her little panties and all the film crew’s kinda looking around. She said, “If they have to show us like we were, I say do it. But look at us now. You tell them to tell them how we live in peace.�
Mincaye killed Ompodae’s family and took her forcibly to be his wife. Kimo had led the spearing party to kill Dawa’s family, Dabo had killed...Everybody sitting there, they all had reasons to hate each other. So, it really was an incredible transformation. They should have killed me when I was a kid. They knew that I would grow up to want to avenge my father’s death, so they should have killed me too.
About the story’s perspective…
Mart Green: I said, there’s one thing I will not compromise on, and that’s the way the story’s told. I’m gonna tell them, “We acted badly, badly until they brought us God’s carvings. And now we walk his trail.� And if you think back to documentary, that’s what act one was, “We acted badly, badly…� We told you how they lived. And then act two is when Rachel and them come in and bring God’s Word. “And now we walk His trail,�- you saw them actually flying the plane and trying to create their own culture. That became act one, act two, act three and the flagpole that I said “I will not let go of.� And I don’t want to tell your dad’s story, I don’t want to tell Wycliffe’s story…
The first three movie scripts, I rejected all three of them because they became the North American story. I kept saying, “Now, look, I know it’s impossible to tell the South American point of view, but I can’t do it any other way. I have no choice. We’re going to have to figure out a way to do it.�
The nature and origin of the documentary…
Mart Green: Now, the documentary obviously is very broad. It’s a lot of people’s point of view. When you get down to the movie [End of the Spear, the feature film on which the documentary is based], it gets down to Mincaye and Steve. And that’s really my passion – the movie. Now, along the way, Bill Ewing challenged me to do a documentary. I thought, “We’ve busted on three scripts. I’m tired of not succeeding, so let’s DO something. Let’s do a documentary.� Then Jim Hanon shot an hour and a half piece that wound up turning out a whole lot better than I could have ever imagined.
Interviewer: Why did you release the documentary before the feature? Or has the feature been released, just not here?
Mart Green: The movie’s going to be released next January. Now, the fiftieth anniversary of this event is January 2006. It happened in 1956. So, we’re going to leverage that to a broad audience.
Interviewer: You were obviously in retail before, so have you redirected into film or are you doing both?
Mart Green: I started Mardel Christian Bookstores when I was 19 yeas old. I quit college and started, so I did that for 23 years and this past June, I named a new president and took the title of CEO…I am taking a much more active role in Every Tribe because it’s brand new. So, more of my time is spent there.
Interviewer: Are you looking to do documentaries or feature films in the future?
Mart Green: Feature films, but documentaries become part of the marketing strategy. Just like you make a trailer or you make a commercial…The next film, we want to do on the persecuted church in China, but we’ll do a video on the persecuted church of the world. See what I’m saying? What is happening in our world today while we’re sitting here in North America and people are being persecuted for their faith. It’s happening all over the world….and then we’d have a feature film. But again, that would be very focused. We would tell a story of a little boy in China. We would take one of many, many stories and make a film out of that. African AIDS is what we hope to be our next one...we want to make feature films, and if the documentary serves that purpose, so be it.
We’re making it [End of the Spear] into the Chariot’s of Fire model, that’s what I say. It’s a great story. Yeah, it’s faith-based, but it’s a great story FIRST. Then it’s faith-based second. So, that’s our passion in film.
Interviewer: The feature film End of the Spear will use actors for the main roles, right?
Mart Green: Yeah, we shot it in Panama, but we did use an indigenous tribe so most of the Waodani, who were Ecuadorian of course, were played by people that were in huts that we canoed down. Now, the lead guy that played Mincaye is a North American actor. Three of the major parts that are playing the Waodani are by North American professional actors. All the rest of them were non-actors that did an incredible job. It was so fun because we used an indigenous tribe to play an indigenous tribe…The documentary, now, those will be the real stories. Here are the real people telling the real story, and here’s what they told us and here’s exactly what it is. It will be a great follow-up piece when people say, “I don’t even believe that.� You know, parts of the story are even better than what we could even tell in a film…At the end of the feature film, when the credits are rolling, you’ll see parts of the documentary…at the end you get to see the real Steve, the real Mincaye, and it just brings it home once again.�
What other projects do you have on your plate?
Mart Green: We feel like we’ve got the first five. One, you’ve already seen the documentary. The second one is the persecuted church in China. The third is Africa AIDS, which will be based on an orphan city we’re going to visit through the year this year. Basically, I can get them down to one word. The first story is on Reconciliation. The second story will be based on Freedom. In other words, the guys in prison have more freedom than the guys that are holding them captive. That doesn’t sound right, that doesn’t make sense, but in their spirit, there’s more freedom being behind bars than not behind bars. We use birds and cages as another symbol of being caged, but being free…Africa AIDS, the word for that will be Truth. The Africans have been lied to through slavery, through all these different years, they’ve been lied to. And right now, there are a lot of lies happening with the AIDS issues. So, the Truth will set you free. And then we want to tell a story about Islam and then we want to tell a story about post-modern…Those are the five that the Lord’s laid on our hearts and our challenge is to go find them.
Did you see any other miracles associated with this film, other than Mincaye getting his passport, which Steve told us about?
Mart Green: Well, a couple of things happened and I’ll send you the stories.
—Overview
—Trailers, Photos
—About this Film pdf
—Spiritual Connections
For More Information on the upcoming films, go to www.everytribe.com.