"The Insiders" (Teen Titans/Outsiders mini-series)
—Overview
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What makes you, you? Do things like DNA determine the type of person you become, or is it more a matter of nurture combined with the choices you make along the way? Also, can we ever engage evil in a way that is not personal? And if we can, should we? These are some of the questions that lurk at the heart of “The Insiders,� a four-part mini-series that spans Teen Titans #24–25 and Outsiders #24–25.
The story opens in Teen Titans #24 with Superboy despairing about his origins. Recently, he discovered he is not a native of Krypton, as he was originally told, he is actually a clone composed of equal parts Lex Luthor and equal parts Superman. A toxic combination to say the least!
Superboy’s main concern is whether or not he has a soul. He’s put the question to Raven, the “spiritual� member of the Titans, but she couldn’t give him a straight answer. With some encouragement from Robin, Superboy finally decides to break the news to his teammates. However, just as he is about to do so, disaster strikes in the form of a supra-sonic message that flicks a switch inside Superboy, turning him into an agent of evil. Instead of spilling the beans to his fellow Titans, Superboy tries to kill them instead.
A protracted battle ensues, during which the Titans fight to stay alive while trying to figure out what the heck is going on. They try to reason with Superboy, appeal to his emotional side, but nothing gets through. Just when it looks like all hope is lost, Superboy is called away by another supra-sonic message.
Seizing the moment, Robin makes a frantic call for help to the Outsiders, another super next gen superhero group. Unfortunately, rather than improve this situation, this actually makes things worse by triggering a similar transformation in Indigo, a “female� member of the Outsiders who is actually a robot from the future. “I am Brainiac 8. I am your destruction,� she announces. Apparently, both the Titans and the Outsiders should have done a better job of pre-screening their members.
The storyline picks up in Outsiders #24 with a battle similar to the one between Superboy and the Titans. The Outsiders also try to appeal to Indigo on an emotional level, but it appears the Indigo they knew has disappeared without leaving a forwarding address. Once again, just when things are looking dark, Indigo is spirited away.
Realizing the two incidents are probably linked, the Titans and the Outsiders get together to figure out what they’re going to do about it. Before they resolve anything, however, they are attacked by an army of Superman robots. The final pages of this issue reveal Luthor and Brainiac as the masterminds behind these events. Their mission? Nothing less than the eradication of an entire generation of superheroes.
Teen Titans #25 begins by giving us a hint about Luthor’s motives. Throughout his battles with Superman, he has come to realize that although Kryptonite and magic may harm Superman, they will not destroy him. “You have to reach deeper. You have to find something he loves—or create something he will love,� says Luthor. Then you have to use that thing to destroy the Justice League’s so-called “children.� That will be what finally brings Superman down. And that is precisely why Luthor chose to create Superboy.
From there, we leap into the battle with the Superman robots. Never mind that it took only one of these things to kill Donna Troy. The Titans and Outsiders reduce them to nothing more than a pile of spare parts with only minimal damage to themselves.
Then we get a peek into Brainiac’s plans. Unlike Luthor, he is actually attempting to change history, to prevent an event that could potentially set back his home world of Colu thousands of years. To achieve his goal, he has to make Superman’s home—Earth—all but uninhabitable.
Back at ground zero, Robin finally breaks the news about Superboy’s origins. Needless to say, everyone is stunned. Once again, the Titans and Outsiders debate about which team should tackle this problem, eventually deciding that they both have a stake in it. Robin is the one who manages to convince the Outsiders to let the Titans stay on the case. “We’re not the Justice League, Robins says, “Our relationships are important… If one of us is in trouble, we don’t stop until they’re not.� This argument appeals to Nightwing most of all. Even though he left the Titans and joined the Outsiders because he didn’t his battle against the bad guys to get personal, Robin reminds him that there’s no escaping it. “When you’re talking about saving lives, everything you do is personal.�
As if to emphasize the point, Luthor shows up with Superboy and sends him after the Titans and Outsiders like an attack dog. This time, the two superhero teams manage to subdue Superboy long enough to reason with him. However, realizing he has lost control of his creation, Luthor utters the magic words, and Superboy becomes a monster once again. Then Indigo shows up and takes Wonder Girl hostage, warning her former lover Shift that the only way to defeat her is to kill her.
Outsiders #25 pauses to reflect on a tender moment that took place between Shift and Indigo three weeks earlier. While lying in bed together, Indigo presents Shift with an artificial rose she has made for him. The question is, just because it wasn’t created through conventional means, does that make it any less real? Because if it does, that could potentially mean that Shift, who was created from a remnant of Rex Mason’s (Metamorpho’s) body, and Indigo, who is a robot, aren’t real either—neither, by extension, is Superboy.
After that, it’s back to the battle. After getting hit hard enough by Wonder Girl, Superboy returns to his sense once again. This forces Luthor to step and do his own dirty work for a change. But he is stopped by Superboy, the ultimate triumph of nurture over nature. “I’m not you! I’ll never be you!� Superboy says.
When Starfire takes out both Brainiac, she manages to eliminate Luthor as well. That leaves Indigo/Brainiac 8 as the only remaining threat. Like Superboy, all it takes is an assault of colossal proportion to finally bring her back to her senses—but only for a moment. As it turns out, the personality everyone knew as Indigo was merely a sub-program of Brainiac 8 designed to make her appear human so she could gain the heroes’ trust long enough to assess their weaknesses. That sub-program surfaces just long enough to tell Shift how she can be defeated—through death. The two share a final tender moment before Shift ends her life in a way that is as symbolic as it is painless—by transforming her body from machine into flesh.
With the battle over, Nightwing announces that he is leaving the superhero business for good. “It wasn’t supposed to be personal,� he says, “but it is.� But all hope is not lost. The epilogue hints that even death can be cheated, and what better way to prove it than by the return of Donna Troy? (Her “resurrection� is detailed in the mini-series The Return of Donna Troy.)
As someone of questionable origins myself—I was born out of wedlock and given up for adoption—I have faced many of the same questions asked by Shift, Superboy, and Indigo in this mini-series. Do I really deserve to exist in the same way others do? Does the fact that I was born through unconventional means make me any less human, any less deserving of a normal life? For much of my existence, I believed that it did. Although I was raised by loving parents in a relatively conventional family situation, I couldn’t escape the feeling that there was something wrong with me; that I didn’t fit somehow; that I didn’t deserve to live, even. I’m certain that some people reading this review have felt the same way.
For this reason, I really appreciated the way writers Geoff Johns and Judd Winick resolve this issue during the love scene between Shift and Indigo. They both decide that even though the facts don’t line up, they are going to trust what their feelings are telling them anyway. They both feel love; therefore, it—they—must be real. End of story. Eventually, I had to come to the same conclusion. Even though the facts of my origin are somewhat foggy (I still don’t know who my father is), they are outweighed by the overwhelming sense that I exist for a purpose. Although my parents’ perceived my birth as an accident, God did not see it that way at all. For him, my birth was a moment of immense significance, purpose, and joy. How do I know this? Because I have experienced some of God’s delight over my life, and it is a greater affirmation of my right to exist than any mere factual account of my birth could ever be. Even if I had been born through conventional means, I am certain I would still feel lost and alone if I had not experienced God’s affirmation of my existence on an emotional level.
Beyond issues of origin and identity, I was also intrigued by the question of whether or not evil can ever be engaged effectively on an impersonal level. It’s a telling detail that the Outsiders—other than Shift, that is—had an easier time engaging Indigo in battle than the Titans had going up against Superboy. Not only was Indigo non-human, her background was still such a mystery that there wasn’t nearly as much at stake when she turned against them. The sense of personal betrayal was not as deep, the emotional consequences of her potential demise not nearly so unappealing.
For Shift, however, Indigo’s betrayal couldn’t have been more personal. Having always felt so separate from everyone else, he had finally found someone with whom he could share his life on the deepest level. Now he was faced with having to destroy the very life that had become so interconnected with his. Not only that, but he had to reconsider the possibility once that he had fallen in love with nothing more than a highly sophisticated computer program. It’s Blade Runner all over again.
What Winick and Johns appear to be saying here is that no matter how hard we try to portray the enemy as something different than ourselves—as a machine, even—there is no escaping the fact that we are all connected on the most intimate of levels. Therefore, taking the life of another is never an impersonal matter, even though we may try, like Nightwing, to convince ourselves otherwise. When describing the church, the Apostle Paul refers to it as one body with many parts. “If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it� (1 Corinthians 12:26). I think Johns and Winick are saying the same thing about the human race, and I think they're dead on.
Featuring some incredible artwork (especially Matthew Clark and Jeremy Cox’s work in Teen Titans) as well as an engaging storyline that attempts to grapple with important issues, “The Insiders� mini-series has definitely put Teen Titans and Outsiders on my monthly “must buy� list.
—Overview
—Back to Comix Index
—Back to Comix Index
What makes you, you? Do things like DNA determine the type of person you become, or is it more a matter of nurture combined with the choices you make along the way? Also, can we ever engage evil in a way that is not personal? And if we can, should we? These are some of the questions that lurk at the heart of “The Insiders,� a four-part mini-series that spans Teen Titans #24–25 and Outsiders #24–25.
The story opens in Teen Titans #24 with Superboy despairing about his origins. Recently, he discovered he is not a native of Krypton, as he was originally told, he is actually a clone composed of equal parts Lex Luthor and equal parts Superman. A toxic combination to say the least!Superboy’s main concern is whether or not he has a soul. He’s put the question to Raven, the “spiritual� member of the Titans, but she couldn’t give him a straight answer. With some encouragement from Robin, Superboy finally decides to break the news to his teammates. However, just as he is about to do so, disaster strikes in the form of a supra-sonic message that flicks a switch inside Superboy, turning him into an agent of evil. Instead of spilling the beans to his fellow Titans, Superboy tries to kill them instead.
A protracted battle ensues, during which the Titans fight to stay alive while trying to figure out what the heck is going on. They try to reason with Superboy, appeal to his emotional side, but nothing gets through. Just when it looks like all hope is lost, Superboy is called away by another supra-sonic message.
Seizing the moment, Robin makes a frantic call for help to the Outsiders, another super next gen superhero group. Unfortunately, rather than improve this situation, this actually makes things worse by triggering a similar transformation in Indigo, a “female� member of the Outsiders who is actually a robot from the future. “I am Brainiac 8. I am your destruction,� she announces. Apparently, both the Titans and the Outsiders should have done a better job of pre-screening their members.
The storyline picks up in Outsiders #24 with a battle similar to the one between Superboy and the Titans. The Outsiders also try to appeal to Indigo on an emotional level, but it appears the Indigo they knew has disappeared without leaving a forwarding address. Once again, just when things are looking dark, Indigo is spirited away.
Realizing the two incidents are probably linked, the Titans and the Outsiders get together to figure out what they’re going to do about it. Before they resolve anything, however, they are attacked by an army of Superman robots. The final pages of this issue reveal Luthor and Brainiac as the masterminds behind these events. Their mission? Nothing less than the eradication of an entire generation of superheroes.
Teen Titans #25 begins by giving us a hint about Luthor’s motives. Throughout his battles with Superman, he has come to realize that although Kryptonite and magic may harm Superman, they will not destroy him. “You have to reach deeper. You have to find something he loves—or create something he will love,� says Luthor. Then you have to use that thing to destroy the Justice League’s so-called “children.� That will be what finally brings Superman down. And that is precisely why Luthor chose to create Superboy.From there, we leap into the battle with the Superman robots. Never mind that it took only one of these things to kill Donna Troy. The Titans and Outsiders reduce them to nothing more than a pile of spare parts with only minimal damage to themselves.
Then we get a peek into Brainiac’s plans. Unlike Luthor, he is actually attempting to change history, to prevent an event that could potentially set back his home world of Colu thousands of years. To achieve his goal, he has to make Superman’s home—Earth—all but uninhabitable.
Back at ground zero, Robin finally breaks the news about Superboy’s origins. Needless to say, everyone is stunned. Once again, the Titans and Outsiders debate about which team should tackle this problem, eventually deciding that they both have a stake in it. Robin is the one who manages to convince the Outsiders to let the Titans stay on the case. “We’re not the Justice League, Robins says, “Our relationships are important… If one of us is in trouble, we don’t stop until they’re not.� This argument appeals to Nightwing most of all. Even though he left the Titans and joined the Outsiders because he didn’t his battle against the bad guys to get personal, Robin reminds him that there’s no escaping it. “When you’re talking about saving lives, everything you do is personal.�
As if to emphasize the point, Luthor shows up with Superboy and sends him after the Titans and Outsiders like an attack dog. This time, the two superhero teams manage to subdue Superboy long enough to reason with him. However, realizing he has lost control of his creation, Luthor utters the magic words, and Superboy becomes a monster once again. Then Indigo shows up and takes Wonder Girl hostage, warning her former lover Shift that the only way to defeat her is to kill her.
Outsiders #25 pauses to reflect on a tender moment that took place between Shift and Indigo three weeks earlier. While lying in bed together, Indigo presents Shift with an artificial rose she has made for him. The question is, just because it wasn’t created through conventional means, does that make it any less real? Because if it does, that could potentially mean that Shift, who was created from a remnant of Rex Mason’s (Metamorpho’s) body, and Indigo, who is a robot, aren’t real either—neither, by extension, is Superboy.After that, it’s back to the battle. After getting hit hard enough by Wonder Girl, Superboy returns to his sense once again. This forces Luthor to step and do his own dirty work for a change. But he is stopped by Superboy, the ultimate triumph of nurture over nature. “I’m not you! I’ll never be you!� Superboy says.
When Starfire takes out both Brainiac, she manages to eliminate Luthor as well. That leaves Indigo/Brainiac 8 as the only remaining threat. Like Superboy, all it takes is an assault of colossal proportion to finally bring her back to her senses—but only for a moment. As it turns out, the personality everyone knew as Indigo was merely a sub-program of Brainiac 8 designed to make her appear human so she could gain the heroes’ trust long enough to assess their weaknesses. That sub-program surfaces just long enough to tell Shift how she can be defeated—through death. The two share a final tender moment before Shift ends her life in a way that is as symbolic as it is painless—by transforming her body from machine into flesh.
With the battle over, Nightwing announces that he is leaving the superhero business for good. “It wasn’t supposed to be personal,� he says, “but it is.� But all hope is not lost. The epilogue hints that even death can be cheated, and what better way to prove it than by the return of Donna Troy? (Her “resurrection� is detailed in the mini-series The Return of Donna Troy.)
As someone of questionable origins myself—I was born out of wedlock and given up for adoption—I have faced many of the same questions asked by Shift, Superboy, and Indigo in this mini-series. Do I really deserve to exist in the same way others do? Does the fact that I was born through unconventional means make me any less human, any less deserving of a normal life? For much of my existence, I believed that it did. Although I was raised by loving parents in a relatively conventional family situation, I couldn’t escape the feeling that there was something wrong with me; that I didn’t fit somehow; that I didn’t deserve to live, even. I’m certain that some people reading this review have felt the same way.
For this reason, I really appreciated the way writers Geoff Johns and Judd Winick resolve this issue during the love scene between Shift and Indigo. They both decide that even though the facts don’t line up, they are going to trust what their feelings are telling them anyway. They both feel love; therefore, it—they—must be real. End of story. Eventually, I had to come to the same conclusion. Even though the facts of my origin are somewhat foggy (I still don’t know who my father is), they are outweighed by the overwhelming sense that I exist for a purpose. Although my parents’ perceived my birth as an accident, God did not see it that way at all. For him, my birth was a moment of immense significance, purpose, and joy. How do I know this? Because I have experienced some of God’s delight over my life, and it is a greater affirmation of my right to exist than any mere factual account of my birth could ever be. Even if I had been born through conventional means, I am certain I would still feel lost and alone if I had not experienced God’s affirmation of my existence on an emotional level.
Beyond issues of origin and identity, I was also intrigued by the question of whether or not evil can ever be engaged effectively on an impersonal level. It’s a telling detail that the Outsiders—other than Shift, that is—had an easier time engaging Indigo in battle than the Titans had going up against Superboy. Not only was Indigo non-human, her background was still such a mystery that there wasn’t nearly as much at stake when she turned against them. The sense of personal betrayal was not as deep, the emotional consequences of her potential demise not nearly so unappealing.
For Shift, however, Indigo’s betrayal couldn’t have been more personal. Having always felt so separate from everyone else, he had finally found someone with whom he could share his life on the deepest level. Now he was faced with having to destroy the very life that had become so interconnected with his. Not only that, but he had to reconsider the possibility once that he had fallen in love with nothing more than a highly sophisticated computer program. It’s Blade Runner all over again.
What Winick and Johns appear to be saying here is that no matter how hard we try to portray the enemy as something different than ourselves—as a machine, even—there is no escaping the fact that we are all connected on the most intimate of levels. Therefore, taking the life of another is never an impersonal matter, even though we may try, like Nightwing, to convince ourselves otherwise. When describing the church, the Apostle Paul refers to it as one body with many parts. “If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it� (1 Corinthians 12:26). I think Johns and Winick are saying the same thing about the human race, and I think they're dead on.
Featuring some incredible artwork (especially Matthew Clark and Jeremy Cox’s work in Teen Titans) as well as an engaging storyline that attempts to grapple with important issues, “The Insiders� mini-series has definitely put Teen Titans and Outsiders on my monthly “must buy� list.
—Overview
—Back to Comix Index
25 Comments:
Oh, Kevin! I was going to put in a cheeky post about what seemed to me yet ANOTHER overcomplicated, unlikely, "too-many-superheroes" tale... when you weigh in with that surprise personal admission!
I can't put anything very cheeky now!
I have quite a strange mind, but a much staider origin than yours. (Despite all the foreign origins; I was VERY deliberately conceived... it was the will of my mother above all!!)
Ah. I don't know what to say now. Except... how can they "kill" Luthor... in just another of these "mix-em-up" comics...
They'll need him again!
Same with the other characters.
Aren't the writers getting a bit bored? I mean, it sounds like a really bad Star Trek Next Generation plot, that it does to me; and that's all I'll say without buying it.. though it doesn't precisely tempt me.
But anyway: viz this "how many different versions of the characters/Earths are there" question that I posed on the other board. I did some research on Wiki yesterday (not that you want to believe ALL you read on there) and it went on about the Infinite Earths.... which I thought they had in comics anyway, as a matter of course, they were just impossible to follow though.. and anyway, I don't think that explained away EVERY "continuity difference".
Well THEN, in 1985, they had a proto-event comic, which attempted to "get rid" of this theme, by "conflating" the earths... which is STUPID, anyway, in sf/science/quantuum physics terms, you CAN'T... ask any genuine multi-universer!
(And if you COULD, it wouldn't kill off characters, just combine them, I think.)
Anyway. I think comics continuity sucks, actually. Especially DC's.
And I LIKE the idea of "other universes" - they should KEEP THIS IN - and not just in "Elseworlds" - it's necessary plotwise (if they want to engage in umpteen experiments) and - it's scientifically true! According to some very staid scientists, who don't even believe in things like "morphic resonance" and animal telepathy!! (I do, but there you go.)
Anyway, it was first mentioned in DC's comics with the addition of Mr Mxyptlizoiaheoaihe;oihd;o... whatever - I looked him up on Wiki the other day too; and "Batmite", in the late 40s.
At a time when MOST other science fiction WAS just concentrating on aliens (with tentacles) and rocket ships/saucers, I rather think that comics were sciencefictionally speaking ahead of their time... right up to the edge, anyway.
Oh, I WILL say, that I never liked the idea of Robin as "Nightwing", though. I never saw the point of it.
(Well, I DID... to "draw in" older teenage viewers who had "grown out of" the child Robin... But I didn't like the way they did it, in these later comics.)
Because, they made Dick Grayson into Nightwing... and thereby largely changed his persona: from being the happy-go-lucky sidekick (which STILL came out in things like the 90s Dini cartoons!) to being this morose figure who hates and resents his mentor Batman... without there being any REAL explanation in the stories - that I could see (or that I cared about/was convinced by!) to justify this; or to justify his change in personality... you do NOT make Master Happy-go-Lucky into Mr Miserable in a few short years; not unless there is some real REASON for that... and there wasn't!
And they did the SAME disingenuous thing with a LOT of comic book characters; just with the Batman ones: well, they made the Batman a lot more "dark" (read miserable, morose, moronic!) than he used to be: the only excuse there that they've got, and that they KEEP falling back on, was that he lost his parents as a kid, and never really got over it - and, that as the years went by (I am assuming, in the modern "continuity") it weighed heavier on him rather than lighter.
But - you see - WHY then, the "change" in the personalities - and the escalation in violence - of characters such as the Joker, in modern comics??
How were WE, the readers (including ME, me.. the only sensible skeptic among the LOT of you, I SO often felt!) supposed to "explain" that to ourselves, so that we could continue our suspension of disbelief - which IS what the "fiction" game is all about?!?!?!?
I mean, WHY make out, HOW explain, that the Joker would go like that... to match the Batman? (What, is he his psychic twin??)
Were we to suppose that the Joker suddenly felt his strange (and rather elegant, in my view!) "disfigurement" to be TOO MUCH for him, over the years - so he is NOT just a funny and annoying and sometimes menacing "dip"... (which AGAIN, is how Paul Dini STILL usually portrayed him - which is what kept me watching those cartoons, every so often, even though I didn't dig the visuals at first...)
So that the Joker, in the late 80s comics/GNs - at that late a date! - became no longer the friendly neighbourhood anarchist nutter I so proudly identified with (secretly, of course!)..
But became some sort of TOTAL serial killer psychopath - and a MISOGYNIST as well, what an INSULT to the Great Goddess, to all female comics readers (and humour fans) and to the very profession of clowning... That was SUCH a disgusting "meme" to put into comics (after ALL, not even Thomas Harris' Hannibal Lecter is a misogynist: he is always prepared to give Clarice her due, even though he IS a cannibal... one "meme" that thankfully DOESN'T seem to have found its way into mainstream comics... or has somebody got an example for me??)
(Oh, and you'll just have to see all my remarks about Batman, T.H. Harris and so on, on IMDB.com, Kevin... I'll post you some links, if you can't be bothered to come and search for me there.. I thought you might!! But you might be busy. When I get around to it.)
And this sexism, if not misogyny, (on the part of the Joker) even makes its way a bit into the otherwise quite clever Dini portrayals... It is just so OLD and STALE, this sexist meme, and has no BUSINESS in the 21st century... And it was NEVER in the old, original versions; this is yet another example of the pop culture of our fathers being more progressive, in many aspects, than it is today... The only thing they wouldn't take on back then was the race thing... and how has that REALLY changed???
Really it's all Frank Miller's fault, though, isn't it. That deranged fascist superimposed his deranged mind and will all over comic books... and you "fanboys" let him!!
He made up all sorts of stupid things about that key comics hero, the Batman... none of them canonical. There was ONE overriding new idea HE introduced, which no-one seems to have given him "credit" - or rather blame - for, and that is that he made the comics "personal", rather like a bad action movie. The "he's back and it's personal!" concept; that underlines the whole of DKR.
And the "motivation" for this is implied at key points in the above comic. Frankie implies very strongly that the Batman became embittered... embittered enough to LEAVE the superhero thing for a while - because a) all his adversaries became (or were revealed to be?) perverts, seems to be Frank Miller's first "major statement", and b) because one of his Robins - NAMELY Jason Todd, Miller mentions him by name, was KILLED... Miller all but says that it was by the Joker, who he likewise presents merrily kid-killing at another point in the story.
Anyway, IT WAS FRANK MILLER - NOT O'NEIL OR STARLIN - who made up this MORONIC idea in comics in the FIRST PLACE: to him should all blame be given!! HE is the kid-killer; no-one else.
It's a stupid "motive" for the Batman, anyway. (Ie, that Jason was killed: ergo I can do whatever I like and be "God"!) But it's the only possible one Miller can come up with, to justify his portrayal being so "dark" and fascist!
And it plays into ALL the usual right-wing stereotypes... as YOU should be wise to, Kevin! Namely: demonizing (all) criminals; making out that the best and the brightest among them, Joker, Two-Face, would be perverts and woman-abusers... right... like saying the same thing about black people, isn't it? I think so. (MAURICE, BTW: I am thinking of you when I write the above remarks: and I insist that you see the parallels!)
And with the JOKER, well, he's "GAY", you see - he certainly LOOKS it, as Frank Miller so gleefully expounds upon... now that really IS a bonanza, in favour of right-wing ideology, because if you're Miller you can make out that the Joker is another of these "pedophiles" who however gets his jollies by killing kids... the usual. And actually, even the leader of the street gang, who Batman defeats and jails, is insinuated against as a pedophile.
Does anyone, BTW, think F. M. has "issues" here?? Or can it all simply be ascribed to his getting all his information off stupid racist, homophobic and right-wing websites?? "Operation Rescue", perhaps? Got a good link for some of 'em here: http://www.notso.com/rrlinks.htm
Read all about them in their own words at your leisure! (That Beverly LaHaye seems to be attracting my animosity at the moment.)
I hate Frank Miller. I think he should be hung, drawn and quartered. He is the terrorist of modern comics. Far more destructive (of story and character) than he has been creative.
Oh - and if you went into any major British jail and accused a large number of the "faces" - which means the top bank robbers and gangsters, of being PERVERTS - the above is precisely what they would do to YOU. I am just stating a very apparent truth!
Anyway - NOW do you see WHY I hate Frank Miller, why I hate his comics, and why I hate MOST comics - and what they have become, Kevin?!?!?
Kevin? Sexism in comics? Sexism introduced by "the Miller I don't like"?!?
I know it's off topic on this blog, really... but I NEVER really liked "Nightwing", particularly the way they made him turn against his old mentor, the Batman.... see, I NEVER turn against my old mentors and teachers! I remember them ALL fondly... even Mr Roberts, who once wanted to smack me with a ruler for nothing, even though he was such a gem of a teacher in other respects...
I don't see why they should make Dick Grayson hate Bruce Wayne. It is AGAINST his personality type.
Any comments? I'd particularly like to know what you think about sexism/misogyny and the Joker, as he has been portrayed by modern comics (dicks)!
WHY are they blaming this bisexual character for their bad feelings about women - Miller, Moore, Morrisson... isn't it all just their own "projection", as shrinks would say?
There is SUCH a lot in modern comics I find objectionable... They might be trying to patch it up now a bit... but I don't think they CAN, without going back and ERASING all the bad, late-80s-early-90s "continuity".
So - where are your essays about DK1 and DK2 - HOW in the heck did they manage to make a DK2, anyway??
To tell you the truth, I haven't spent a lot of time reflecting on sexism in comics. My gut level reaction is to say that according to the way women are drawn in superhero comics, I would suspect that the artists or the readers tend to view women as sex objects. Va-va-voom! But when I think about it, I first developed an appreciation for the beauty of the heavily muscled male form from reading Superman comics. Today, if I look at a character like Catman in "Villains United," I have to say that the artists have as much fun exagerrating the male body as they do the female body.
Moving beyond the physical, males definitely tend to dominate the superhero universe, but this is probably less a function of sexism and more a reflection of the fact that males are the primary readers of superhero comics. Guys tend to want to see other guys save the world, not women, just as women would rather see women save the world, seeing as all men usually do is muck it up.
I'm not informed enough on the Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne relationship to comment on that right now. AS for the long, lost DK1 and DK2 essays, they will come. But I have a huge backlog of current titles to review first.
"Sexism" in comics can be FUN?? Hmm, maybe you're confusing it with SENSUOUSNESS/sensuality, Kevin, to which I can agree that representations of muscular supermen and likewise muscled (though of course much more subtly!), trim and curvy superwomen... lead the reader to an "appreciation" of the human body!
(How I LOVED the Batman, though! And his muscles turned me on as a teenager! He was more of a "Byronic" hero for me - in the later traditional comics - with of course that touch of stern father archetype which I so thrilled to! In the TV series, which I was more into when I was younger, of course, it was his (Adam West's) cheekbones that carried off my heart! I LIKED this "old-fashioned" Batman, though... he was so EARNEST... so NICE... like one of the nice, old-fashioned heroes from one of J K Rowling's books! (I see with hindsight!))
"...males are the primary readers of superhero comics. [SHOULDN'T WE BE CHANGING THIS, KEVIN?? AND ISN'T IT SELFISH FOR GUYS - IN THE 21ST CENTURY - TO ATTEMPT TO HOG THIS MEDIUM (more than they did in the 50s/60s, if you ask me!!) AND, SEEING AS WOMEN MAKE UP THE MAJORITY OF THE BOOK/PERIODICAL-BUYING MARKET *ANYWAY* (I don't know the precise statistics, but I know this is so), WON'T PUBLISHERS *WANT* TO REDRESS THE BALANCE IN THAT AREA ANYWAY, FOR SIMPLE REASONS OF PROFIT?? (Yeah, and I also know that capitalism does not equal rationality!! Not even always enlightened self-interest.) BUT ANYWAY, MORE GIRLS/WOMEN THAN BOYS/MEN TEND TO READ J K ROWLING... even though that's a "boy's book", BUT IT STILL HAS A RESPECTABLE ENOUGH PROPORTION OF MALE READERS... I'D LIKE TO SEE THE SAME HAPPEN WITH COMICS!!] Guys tend to want to see other guys save the world, not women, just as women would rather see women save the world, seeing as all men usually do is muck it up."
Uhuh. Well, with reference to the above remarks... maybe publishers would get themselves a welcome influx of FEMALE, "crossover" readers, if they showed the WOMEN saving the world for a change... or helping the men to save it, as kind of mother/teacher figures... These figure quite a lot in mythology and fairy tale, but not so much in the West, interestingly enough!! Have you ever heard of a Russian fairy tale woman character called "Vassilissa the Wise"?? ('Nother of my comic book adaptation ideas!!) I have, because I have/had relations in the East, as I told you... so I spent quite a bit of time in my youth reading things like Russian fairy tales in German!
Anyway, you have to understand their culture. I do. Surprising they haven't cashed in on it more! (In those countries, I mean... exporting it to the West. Russia and Czecho used to have brilliant animators under Communism... time they found themselves their own Hayao Miyazake, isn't it?? Well anyway. And apparently the Red Chinese invented the idea of the comic book as propaganda. What don't I have some inkling about?)
Yeah. But Kevin, pleasantries aside - isn't there a bit more that is sinister to all that I have pointed out, than just a bit of "Va-va-voom", as you so nicely put it!!
I wasn't JUST talking about sexism, but overt MISOGYNY, in comics.
What do you call the "Sin City" comics and movie, then?? Prostitutes who hurl swastika ninja stars are "feminist", are they? Only an ass could believe that, FYI, ALL you comics fans on the site! If you doubt me, you need to read Brit author Ben Elton's satire on modern Hollywood movies, "Popcorn", which tackles that notion very nicely in one chapter.
You seem to want on the whole to AVOID talking about the Batman-comic-related controversies that I have brought up, Kevin.
As if they would all just go away...
Like for example - I have asked Maurice again and again, and despair of getting any answer... WHY did Frank Miller have to make Two-Face, of all people, into a woman abusing pervert, the only thing to link this to his former M.O. was that he chose to abuse Siamese twins and murder one half of the pair... well what *would* happen if you did that? The other would die soon after, of shock/circulatory failure. I thought that was obvious to anyone with an IQ over 120.
Do you find this action on Harvey's part, believable?
I don't; because I think of criminals (however confused and sinful) as HUMAN; not as heartless automata.
And what about everything that Miller (Frank) makes the Joker do? Come on, it's obvious that he's trying out the usual slurs against "homosexuals", ie, that they hate women because they want to be them (yeah, right, tell that one to G.L.A.A.D.!!), and that they kill children!!
(You can see, too, how all these slurs attach themselves to various minority groups over the centuries... in the Middle Ages/"Hitlerzeit", they would have ascribed all this to Jews. Ergo: F.M. is a Goebbels.)
Never mind harmless "sexism", the sort akin to old British "Carry On" movies with Sid James (have you ever seen them?? MANDATORY introduction to British working-class culture and old-fashioned humour!!).
Never mind THAT sort of thing in comics, though doubtless it exists. How about real MEAN stuff: misogyny, homophobia, (latent) racism?? Which also is in evidence! Frank Miller is my Exhibit A!
P.S.... And, because I'm so pissed off about the whole subject, I'm going to say: isn't it NASTY to view the other gender as "objects"... even as objects of desire?? For men to view women as "sex objects", not-so-purely and oh-so-very simply, as you put it?? Shouldn't comics readers in particular be striving for a more IDEALISED and ROMANTICISED view of the relationship between the sexes.... seeing as they "believe" in these mythological-style characters who spend most of their time "saving the world"??
(Yeah, we all know FRANK would be incapable of such a view... seeing as he spends most of his time exalting relationships between ugly freaks and prostitutes, and schoolgirls/teen strippers and aging detectives... But then Frank has always been not the joker, but the supreme pervert in the comics deck...)
OH how sick i AM of him!
Do WOMEN, however emancipated, view men as "objects"? I don't think they do; at least that's not the language they use... they're more likely to call a man something like a "sex god" if they think he has a physique that is irresistible to women...
Anyway, I've had enough. Show a little more respect, all you men!
Or I'll do to you, what the Joker does to the Batman in "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge", folks. (Have you tried a well-known reprint collection entitled "The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told", Kevin... it might be in that one, published in the early 90s, but I think 2nd-hand copies are reasonably priced on Amazon.)
Frankly I think that the Joker - yes, in that story, shows more RESPECT to the Batman, than writers like Frank Miller and Alan Moore show to the female characters in their Batman stories.
(And YES, that analogy is a relevant one, because it is OBVIOUS - to the (young!) female reader, that the Joker is doing half the shit he does in that, not only to get a mental RISE out of the Batman... but very possibly to get the physical sort as well... he is so OBVIOUSLY enjoying all the sensual aspects of the situation; of having the Batman in his power and all that... torturing him, annoying him (THIS was actually a BIG aspect of the TV series, as well... for Kevin's consideration!) and he says silly things, which if the Batman didn't have to struggle for his life, ie, if the pair were standing at a bar (imagine THAT for a change!) would get the Joker a slap... he says mockingly "I'd do anything for YOU, Batman!" and all shit like that... So yes, I think what the Joker gets out of the situation is VERY clear.)
But the Joker and the other villains, by tradition, always give the superhero a CHANCE.
Which is more than the average male comics writer/reader is prepared to do for women.
As for this "DK2" thing... is it that "sequel" they published in 2003?? (And wasn't that a bit LATE for a sequel to it??)
I keep confusing it with a "ten-year-edition" they brought out of the original in 1995...
Anyway, I loathe it all unreservedly! Bad comics with specious moral arguments are something I'm NEVER going to change my mind on; not in a hurry, I can tell you, Kevin. But review away...
Yes: I finally found it on Amazon.co.uk, after a lot of searching!! It's supposed to be set three years after the first one isn't it... which would make it at the end of the Eighties... But you can't really recapture that mood after 2000!! So really Miller's just writing about 2000, isn't he??
Anyway, most people seem to think it sucked! was "shoddy", etc. Not all...
"Reviewer: A reader from London United Kingdom
I loved DKR and I loved this at least as much. I had to read it cover to cover twice in one sitting.
I think that the unfinished, scrawled, flamboyant artwork perfectly complements the anger and bitterness that Miller feels about the world that we live in. The story, dialogue and images totally reflected the anger and betrayal I feel when faced with the inanities of the press and the downright dishonesty and corruption of the politicians."
Yeah well. The above reviewer who I have quoted off amazon.co.uk, he, as a fellow Brit, should know better, of course!! Than to say what he says.
But I'll tell you what I say! If you're NOT a left-winger, then when it comes to "anger and betrayal at corrupt politicians", you have NOTHING to say, mate, and anything you DO say will only make the situation WORSE and will usher in NEO-FASCISM. As the Germanophone philosophers do say: "Druber hast du nichts zu sagen!" Und dass ist wahr.
If Miller really DOES feel "angry and bitter" about the world - then he should have become a socialist, at a much earlier age, and he should cease and desist writing such crappy comics.
But WHY would Lex Luthor make such a BAD president, anyway?? Because he's a rogue?? But everybody knows that - in the stories - DON'T they?!?
(Same would go for the Penguin!!)
Anyway, ALL politicians are BAD nowadays, even the good ones have feet of clay... aren't we supposed to believe THAT, in the age of the anti-hero?? So... what would be so BAD about having a REAL criminal as President?? At least he wouldn't be such a ****ing hypocrite. I'd rather break bread with Lex Luthor than with Frank Miller, any day.
(I shall swear my undying love for comic book villains; and I don't care who knows it!!)
I think he would make a GOOD; at least a more INTERESTING leader. Why? Because he is, always has been and always will be an outsider. "Lex", indeed... "Alexei", isn't it... Russian Jewish background if you ask me!!
(I have all sorts of strange ethnic theories and parallels about comic books! Eg. I bet I can give you all a VERY good idea of where S&S may very well have TRULY got their inspiration from for the character of Superman... and I've heard all sorts of ideas, including weird 20s moral improvement/body beautiful cults'n'all.. but NOBODY'S thought of this one - and nobody is likely to have, UNLESS they have MY sort of European background... and again, say I shan't till I'm asked... else I shall save it!)
Anyway... I'll SAY this, as well, Kevin... I HAVE to say this, and I might as well make it here, because you don't as yet give me any other place on your blogs where it would be appropriate to say it!
Kevin. Maurice. Sam. Everybody!! Comic books nowadays have indeed become VERY pretentious: just type in "Grant Morrisson" or "Dave McKean" into Amazon, and see what you get... wall to wall pretentious garbage is what!!
But.. their moral compass (not to MENTION their continuity) remains RETARDEDLY restricted.
For example... it ALL goes back, most of it, to what I was saying a while to Kevin about the importance of VILLAINS... and how THEY should be made centre stage, more important, less "reviled" in comics.... I WAS in fact arguing for SYMPATHETIC, though evil, villains (like, for example, Harris' Hannibal Lecter - or Highsmith's Tom Ripley - Milton's Satan), or for VILLAINS/semi-villains who are in fact allowed to occupy the role of ANTI-HERO (as the Riddler did so well in "Batman Forever")...
I am arguing IN FAVOUR of THIS PARADIGM ENTERING COMICS; IN PLACE OF: Heroes who ACT like villains; or heroes who think THEY should be the "anti-heroes"... but they STILL want all the authority (not to mention authoritarianism!) and "moral high ground" that traditionally goes with the most IDEALISTIC of superheroes, don't they??
Ah well; you CAN'T play a game like that; because it don't work, my friends... no matter how many brainless fanboys think it does!!
Well you see, when I said THAT, months back, Kevin replied "it'll never work; comics fans'll never have it"... which tells me WHAT, guys... yes... the majority of modern comics fans are RETARDS!! Who are incapable of entertaining the idea of moral ambiguity. Or of BAD people having GOOD characteristics (though of course they don't mind "goodies" in their graphic novels having some bad ones, because this just gives them a chance to indulge their bully fantasies. Oh, and the TRICK is, that like the soldiers at Abu Ghraib, or like the guys who throw Korans in toilets... these heroes/fans don't call what THEY do "BAD", you see... their logic is that "it isn't bad when *I* do it"... Only when the JOKER/Luthor etc etc do it... yes, THEN it's bad, but not when it's me!!)
Now. Compare all these sorts of crude ideas, those beloved by the minority known as "fanboys" who read modern comics; compare them with the writings of a TOP-NOTCH CHILDREN'S WRITER, namely JOANNE K. ROWLING - yes, she of Harry Potter fame!
And SEE the quality in the latter! SEE how she is able to deal with characters.... who may seem deceptively simple, cartoonish at first... yet who, over books, BLOSSOM into some of the most COMPLEX characters in all classic literature... as all her fans on the book review web pages do agree!!
And OBSERVE how a writer like Rowling deals with both complicated heroes and complex villains.... YEA, comics fans all - if you haven't already, go to Rowling, read and LEARN!
Though she has room for thoroughly IDEALISTIC heroes too.. her Albus Dumbledore (Professor, Headmaster) must be one of the most IDEALISTIC heroes I have ever encountered in literature... More so than Obi-Wan Kenobi!!
Have you READ any of these things, Kevin?!?!?
I'll tell you something. If someone like Frank Miller were given Rowling's characters, woe betide... well, I think the schoolboy Miller would most identify with is the sadistic bully, Draco Malfoy!!
Frank Miller would enjoy writing children's books about sadistic bullies... I'd better not give him the idea. I'm sure that's what he was like at that age. Probably also the runty "victim" too... gives him something to feel "bitter" about!! (Frank doesn't know what causes REAL bitterness and desire for revenge... namely, idealism trod into the mud!)
But Frank would NEVER be able to deal in any fashion with a character like Rowling's snide, hyperintelligent schoolmaster and good/evil double agent, Severus Snape... In fact, I bet Frankie can't even READ those books... (but you can bet that he'd like and is very ENVIOUS of her sales figures, and I BET he thinks: "how dare SHE, a woman and a non-"macho" kiddie writer earn more than ME..." well, she DOES, Frank boy, may it choke you...)
...not merely because they contain a lot of words, but because he wouldn't be able to stand the suspense, stretched out over years and thousands of pages, as to whether, WHETHER - listen, Kevin - Snape is ACTUALLY EVIL OR NOT; a hero or a villain; a helper or a betrayer... And, SEEING as he IS a double agent... for WHOM is he REALLY working... there's the rub!
I've just read about a hundred reviews - they've got over 5,000 appraisals of "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince", on Amazon.com, the American book site... and hardly ONE reader who mentions the issue seems to be able to make up their mind! Rowling has them thoroughly flummoxed! Though I was nearly certain Snape had after all betrayed everyone and was a true Death Eater... but as several KEEN-minded reviewers pointed out (hell, there are some REALLY bright people reading Rowling worldwide!)... there are all sorts of plot twists possible that could render that NOT the case...
Anyway, it's no wonder I'm obsessed with Rowling - because she is clever, complex (ie, has a mind which is CAPABLE of holding TWO CONFLICTING IDEAS (at least!) and various complex hypotheses in it, for LONG periods) and Frank Miller is not. Same goes for every word they respectively write.
You'll have to tell me whether you've read any Rowling, Kevin! If you HAVEN'T: believe me, you DON'T know what you are missing!!
Liz: It's refreshing to hear you talk about something other than your hatred for Frank Miller. Why don't we let that topic rest for a while? (And Batman in general.) As for Rowling, I have read the first few chapters of Philosopher's Stone and watched the second film. That's about it. I wasn't overly impressed with either, but I do see why people like her writing.
As for posts, Liz, I'm sorry, but we're going to have to impose some new rules here. I'm getting the feeling that you're using my blog as your blog. So I'm going to enforce the 500-word limit a little more stringently from here on out. If you post a comment that exceeds 500 words, I am simply going to delete it. (Of course, if you're ten percent over, I won't sweat it.) I'm not trying to be mean here, just realistic. As you have already observed, I simply don't have time to read and respond to the thousands of words you have been posting on my blog each week. I'm all for discussion, but your posts are more like extended rants. I will repeat what I have said before: If you have something to say that goes beyond 500 words, I suggest you either e-mail me or post it on your own blog. And don't worry, I'm not singling you out. If anyone else exceeds this limit, I will issue them the same warning.
Kevin, Kevin, OK, on the word limit business... though you won't mind if I'm ten percent over, fine... I have to update my blog anyway; I can put more on there, can't I, and links to it here... I wish this blogger software allowed one to put clickable links in the text; maybe one can if one knows HTML. I can see WHY you like Frank Miller, though, I think, Kevin (or rather, a large part of his work), because despite all your liberal Christian fuzziness, there is just SOMETHING in you which likes to "control", now isn't there? Truly?? Be honest with yourself and the HJ community; as honest as I have often been.
(Anyway, I wanted to talk to Sam, who usually leaves quite long posts... I still want to catch him on this blog again! He doesn't seem to go to mine.)
As for Frank Miller, I feel I have every right to hate him. I hate fascists. Full stop. And one thing which I think is VERY interesting, is that none of the Christian reviewers on this site, whatever their opinion of the film, picked up on ONE very telling thing in "Sin City": namely, the prevalence of Nazi, swastika and Iron Cross imagery. Yet people on other sites, like the John/commonplacebook I mentioned on livejournal.com, one or two of them picked up the "latent fascism" of it - and so MUCH of modern cinema, as that guy says.
Aren't I allowed to hate Nazis (and their obvious sympathizers), Kevin? After all, they nearly put my grandad in Dachau... as I told you: and my father was an air force pilot who got shot down fighting them... (he had the scars to prove it... lots of large-coin-sized burns on his chest, I remember them still) which is more than ANY of those tossers in Hollywood nowadays are capable of, I can tell you.
Anyway, maybe you've been reading too many long and boring books recently, Kevin. (Eg. of criticism and analysis of comics, etc, etc...) Maybe that takes up a lot of your time, that you could otherwise devote to... my rants! I'm sure that if you had to pay money to read them and if they were somehow sanctified (and edited, of course) by "an official publisher", they would magically become MUCH more palatable to you. I'm not being sarcastic - well, I am, that's just me; I'm being honest. As per usual. What you see is what you get!!
Control: I like it about as much as you do, Liz.
Hating Frank Miller: I suppose you are free to hate him, but it's just like, enough already! Besides, where does hating him get you? By hating the haters, don't you just become one of them? I'm sorry for your father and grandfather's experiences. My grandfather was scarred by the Nazis as well, at least emotionally.
As for the latent fascism in Miller's work, do you really think he is a fascist, i.e. trying to promote Naziism? Or could he merely be using that symbolism to denote something else as fascist, such as the church? (Uh oh, I feel as if I have just triggered another round of Miller bashing.)
--
Posted by Liz the Brit to Reviews by Kevin Miller at 7/27/2005 08:16:15 AM
BTW: I'm not saying your rants are boring or unpalatable, Liz. It's just that you really seem stuck on a single note (or maybe two notes). I really think you need to get past this, Liz. So, you don't like Frank Miller's work. Fine. Why not devote yourself to writing something of your own instead of dissecting every which way he has strayed from the path of virtue?
And, you're coming very close to annoying me again, Kevin. In a way that I might remember. Not only have you dissed Michael Moore, you now dare to dismiss J K Rowling - and still persist in holding Frank Miller beyond reproach!! (What has he done to earn it all!!)
But as you can see, I even manage to work "my hatred for Frank Miller" into remarks about Rowling... mainly by comparing the two! I just WISH comics had someone as clever, as devoted to PLOT and CHARACTER and CONSISTENCY as her, is all!!
But Kevin. You CAN'T say that you're not impressed with the writings of a bestselling author, by reading say a hundred pages of her first book, and watching one movie, that is part of an entire sequence!
That would be like MY saying that I was totally unimpressed with Frank Miller, on the strength of reading about 4 pages of DKR, and watching, say, Robocop II and III, which he co-wrote the scripts for.
Well, I've "experienced" a lot more of your semi-namesake's work than THAT, Kevin. And I'm STILL not impressed! Still, at least I have a FAIR sample to base my opinions on!
I don't even see how you are able to form the opinion that you "see why people like her writing" on that basis. How would you know HOW she writes, or to what standard?? You haven't read anything representative to base your opinion on. For, as I said, Rowling is really a suspense novelist, and her plots stretch and unravel from book to book (so it's no good just trying to "dip in" anywhere along the sequence...) unless you can get an impression of how her books REALLY work - you are just as ignorant of Rowling as the journalists who "teased" her because they were "worried" that the child actors who played Harry and his friends would grow up as kids do... when that's ONLY the whole point of the books, now ain't it? They're not cartoons, like Bart Simpson!
I'm surprised, Kevin, anyway. You owe it to your kids, I would have thought, to share such a wonderful author with them, even if they are old enough to read her for themselves... They're not really, are they? Well maybe in the next few years you will. After all, you will HAVE to give them better role models than a) Frank Miller b) those trashy horror movies you have currently been reviewing.
No. You can't go by "Philosopher's/Sorceror's Stone", anyway, Kevin. That just sets the characters up; and it is the most "childish" of the books. Harry is truly an innocent, I think: and nowhere is this more obvious than in the first book. What you want to do NOW, is to read "The Chamber of Secrets", where the plot hots up, and "The Prisoner of Azkaban" where it gets darker... and on from there.
When you get to "The Half-Blood Prince"... just tell me who, TECHNICALLY, you think is the better writer then... her or Frank. And who has the best grasp of character, plot, logic, Life and the Universe generally.
I'll tell you, it won't be that bastardizing Batman writer.
Oh yes, Kevin... and if you REALLY like, I might JUST give Batman a rest for a while... but this is a Batman Begins blog, tee hee! Which is why I'm surprised you didn't complain about my Harry Potter posts!
But - seeing as you REFUSE to answer any of my most pointed comics-related questions, Kevin, such as the total prevalence of MISOGYNY (that's hatred of women, FYI), never mind mild sexism, that is present right throughout the oeuvre of Frank Miller, and also rears its head in that of less obviously right-wing comiceers, Moore, Morrisson... sigh, the list is too long to count.
That doesn't seem to interest YOU for some reason, Kevin.
And also - you and Maurice BOTH refused to answer my most insistent question relating to the modern school's interpret of the Batman characters specifically... namely, do YOU - as Miller obviously does - believe them all to be sexual and sadistic perverts??
In that very OBVIOUS, tacky sense that the "moderns" put in their very crude fiction, I mean: not in the more veiled, ritualized way that the villains get a (sexual) rise (out of the hero) in both the Sixties series and things like the Seventies comics.
Ooh: nearly forgot. Apologies to readers; this isn't the Batman Begins blog, it's the Teen Titans one. But I think I've put pretty similar comments about Frank Miller etc on Kevin's Batman Begins blog... After a while they all start to MERGE.....
(Comics. Who can stand them? Children's/crossover books, any day!)
Well, I had to mention Dad and Grandad, Kevin, just to prove that there WAS a personal element to all of this... right wingers do this all the time, and I am NEVER too prissy to learn from their propaganda tactics: I know them very well! If Michael Moore is the Limbaugh of the Left, I could very well be its Ann Coulter... Wouldn't mind at all!
But maybe it isn't really the family thing... maybe deep down, there is just something IN my basic psyche, which responds as VICIOUSLY to Frank Miller, as the Joker does to the Batman... and Miller's Batman does to his Joker!! (Because, like capitalism and socialism, they see in each other two opposites that just can NEVER really reconcile, and will NEVER attract, because they have NOTHING in common. In MILLER'S interpretation, that is. In the OLDER stuff... I think that the Joker was actually quite fond of the Batman, (there was a yin/yang thing going on!) and the Batman tolerated the "evil jester" in a patrician sort of way... But of course the world was more civilized in those days.)
In these times, Kevin, I foresee the coming Ragnarok... between the forces of the Left and the Right. No prisoners will be taken in this fight! It is impossible that it should be otherwise. They are TRULY irreconcileable... like Hitler (note: Nazism, not Germans in general) was with the basic democratic ideals of Britain and America.
So that's it, Kevin. I am forecasting a coming whirlwind... With both trepidation and with glee... because of course I am an embittered and frustrated person - YOU know that!
And as for Miller's use of swastikas being "against the church".. I'm not even going to dignify that with much of a rant, Kevin. No rant at all, in fact. Instead: if it was "against" the church, why didn't he make Cardinal Roark wear one - and not a bunch of female, supposedly "feminist" prostitutes?!
Frank Miller is a VERY mixed-up kid. Mixed-up kids... well you never know where you ARE with them, this renders them a) dangerous b) useless. Beware therefore! Telling you so.
"Why not devote yourself to writing something of your own instead of dissecting every which way he has strayed from the path of virtue?" Kevin says of the animosity between me and Frank Miller. (The latter doesn't know about it NOW, of course... but he will hate me even worse than he hates most women - and Rowling for earning a hundred times more than him - if I write a book which FINALLY manages to expose him!)
Yeah, well, in order to DESTROY one's adversary, one must first know him, of course. Of course!
That's like saying to Sherlock Holmes: "Why don't you forget this Moriarty fixation?" Or vice versa!
I'm going to reach critical mass as far as book-writing goes, quite soon, Kevin. You're slowly but surely pushing me over!
The thing IS... that unless I can manage to write - and publish (still, there's some web outfits that might be quite useful, if I can't get a "regular" publisher interested) my own book about each and every way in which a whole STRING of comics writers... well, it's the whole modern industry, isn't it, and modern companies especially DC, now a snug and happy part of AOL Time Warner... aka Evil, Inc.
Well, until that's done... I'll never be over it, Kevin! Never never! And even THEN maybe not! There are just certain THINGS which have SUCH a negative effect on me... As "Batman" once had such a positive one!
Oh, oh.. and we ALL hate being CONTROLLED, don't we, Kevin??
But some still love just to do the controlling!
What happened to your grandfather?! Would you tell me in an e-mail??
Further note on Miller's strange and rather inappropriate use of swastika symbolism: In DKR... ("DK1", if you prefer! Did you like "DK2", too? Most people on Amazon said it was rubbish! Well, I await your reviews!)
... in "DKR", Frank Miller gives the Joker's "girlfriend", "Bruno", a male-to-female transsexual (SUCH imagination, Frankie - especially the *name*!!) RED swastika tattoos on both of his/hers exposed breasts. Charming I'm sure.
(Interestingly, however, this anti-gay symbolism finds its way into much of popular culture, such as the movie "The Silence of the Lambs", where the WOULD-BE male-to-female transsexual serial killer, Buffalo Bill, is portrayed with a blanket, again having a row of (quite large) RED swastikas embroidered along one edge. It's on the edge of frame (on the video, anyway) but it IS quite noticeably THERE.
You see?? Red for Communism/socialism (no doubt!), swastikas for "them evil Nazis" which is of course how history has judged them... all associated with a gay man with feminine/transsexual leanings... All VERY peculiar. (And someone wants to tell me that the C.I.A. doesn't mix its influence into movies?)
Normally, of course, swastikas are black.
And they WEREN'T in the original book...though the "killer transsexual" theme WAS... Harris bent over backwards to be fair to the gay/transsexual community in the book, though, because he brought in a psychiatrist character to say that "Bill" wasn't a true transsexual at ALL; in fact he wasn't even a normal homosexual... he was just weird!
None of this came out in the movie though. But the strange swastikas on the "gay blanket" did. And director Jonathan Demme and the movie company got hauled over the coals by GLAAD, the gay pressure group, for all of that - (also because Bill called his poodle "Precious"!) and serve them all right!
I only wish Frank Miller would attract as much criticism from interest groups.
And NOBODY (like li'l ol' me, I suppose) is SUPPOSED to pick all this up... CONSCIOUSLY... or mention it, "call" the moviemakers on it if we do! Hmm!
Ah, but you SEE, Kevin, some of us KNOW all about subliminals...
And look what a spoiled brat Miller is, by the way!! I believe this quote below comes from MSNBC's website: I saved it hours ago anyway!
NEW YORK - When Robert Rodriguez approached Frank Miller about adapting “Sin City,� he knew he needed a great pitch.
“I told him we shouldn’t insult it by turning it into a movie. We gotta take cinema and turn it into this book,� Rodriguez recalls.
Now COME on. WHEN, indeed, did Joanne ROWLING ever get such a sycophantic "pitch"? And her books in one series alone had already made MILLIONS upon millions, before the film rights were even optioned!!
I'm TIRED about reading about spoiled MEN...
Why should Frank Miller get all that fuss? Not that J K Rowling would have wanted to, but SHE didn't get to "co-direct" her film!! She didn't get to specify all sorts of things about it: the only things she insisted on and got from Warner, was that it should be filmed in Britain with British actors, it should not be an animation... and that was it!
PROPORTIONALITY, people! Less of flattering blokes who already think they are God's gift! That is one of MY demands for justice.
Anyway, I'm tired of Miller's swastika-covered work. HOW could anyone think that he even meant to be negative about fascism in that movie, he associates the swastikas with the prostitutes, who are his heroines... He worships Ayn Rand, as he attests in interviews. (Only strangely enough he also seems to resent her, probably because she was a woman - ergo, he names his RELIGIOUS villain after her ATHEIST HERO, of her most famous work! THAT is why I said on Maurice's blog: if that's what that guy does to his friends, why would he need enemies??)
Miller believes (he has said in print) in "vengeance" against unspecified terrorists - namely, basically everyone who is Arab, Muslim or brown-skinned. He's a racist, and nothing but! How CAN you, Kevin - NOTWITHSTANDING the era you were brought up in, which was the same as mine - Reaganism and Thatcherism - how COULD you believe that such authors as Miller had ANYTHING to say, next to the far more humane and progressive comics writers of the Seventies!!.. You know, superheroes aside (and they did some brilliantly anti-racist work in that genre back then)... old "Planet of the Apes" comics, which I remember from when I was about six, and the corresponding movies, which I grew up with... well, they had MUCH more to say about the human condition - and OH, the biting, yet JUST (not cynical!) irony at the end of Planet of the Apes I, where the Statue of Liberty was revealed as the burnt, rent shell the hero was looking aghast at on the beach, in the last shot... thereby proving that it was OUR planet, after all... (typical old-fashioned SF irony.)
Oh, Kevin... IF they could capture something like that in a movie nowadays... I didn't go to watch the Burton remake, I thought it would be far too pointless.
Movies and TV still really had CONTENT back then... BOTH my parents thought so, you know. They watched most of it with me. We were a regular evening viewing trio! (Only child, you see!) They LOVED Planet of the Apes and the original Star Trek, among other things... I had better not remember too much of those days, it would be too sad for me...
The only time they DIDN'T watch TV with me, was Saturday and Sunday mornings and lunchtimes, so I was left to my own devices, which was just as well, as Mother hated cartoons!! So there I had freedom. And it was THEN that I first laid eyes on the Sixties Batman serial. And I LOVED it, how I loved it... It had a sensibility that was too quirky and bizarre for either of my parents, however. My father might have found it passingly funny. But for ME, you see... the archetypes called to me, and I could ALWAYS tell, from a young age, which stories/characters were archetypal or had the status of mythology... do you know how? My pulse rate used to go up!! And for Batman, it went right through the roof!
(It didn't do this because of violent scenes. It did this because of... concepts... embodied in or expressed by characters.)
This is all just stream-of-consciousness on my part, Kevin!
But as for your idol Frank - he has feet of clay, most definitely.
Yeah, Kevin: before I disillusion you any more, why don't you just POST your reviews of the "Dark Knight" books: I can prepare my own (yes, for my own blog!) I'll post a link to it, say something on here like "This is why Miller sucks" - and have done!
Don't keep us in suspense any longer!
As for DK2... Kryptonite boxing gloves, indeed! VERY serious author, isn't he, our Frankie??
(I know already what I'm going to call my ownreview of S.C.... you've guessed it, Frankie Goes to Hollywood!)
What's he constantly got against the hero Superman, anyway?? What's Superman done to him?
It's because Superman's Jewish, isn't he? An "assimilated" Jew who became an ornament to American culture; that was the original metaphor for the character. (A man from another culture who however, almost meekly (this is where HJ's Jesus parallels are relevant to him!) adopts the culture and values of the society he finds himself among... only the BEST of them, of course, and he seeks to improve them all the time... A stranger from a strange land with superpowers to save the world... Marx, Freud, Einstein... need we say more??)
Miller does NOT do him justice. Miller sucks. Anyway, come to think of it, I think that Miller looks quite Jewish, as he gets older... Though the surname is more German than Jewish. He could also be adopted!
I think he's probably a self-hating halfbreed; rather like Hitler was!
And I don't feel the slightest bit squeamish saying that; after all, I am a particle Jewish myself!
Nope, no DKR review yet.... Come on, Kevin, you're missing your self-imposed deadline!
Kevin,
Its been awhile since I spoke with you. I see some things haven't changed. Liz still needs to have some pretext for feeding her obsession with her hatred of Frank Miller. It might be more beneficial if she had a benevolent obsession to match the one she inflicts on the blogs here. And, of course, as usual she makes remarks that I dominate the blogs. We all know this is far from being fact. But this just proves that she'll do almost anything for attention and validation.
I want to compliment you Kevin on your patience with Liz. It is becoming quite obvious that her behavior is a crying out for love.
Sam Ewing
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