INTERVIEW
WITH TOM SHADYAC
Director of Bruce Almighty
Is
it difficult to be a Christian Director in Hollywood?
What kind of faith does Jim Carrey have?
How can you direct bedroom scenes as a person of faith?
What about the language problem?
What is a spiritual film?
ABOUT
THE INTERVIEW:
Director Tom Shadyac, is a committed Christian. This is an interview
with him by a group of Christian film reviewers. Notice how these
reviewers connect appropriateness to what's acceptable for children.
(I wonder if they would rate an Adult Bible Study be the same standard?)
None of the reviewers ask questions about the art of crafting a
film. And sadly, they do not spend much time discussing the wonderful
and positive theology in this film. Rather they confine themselves
to negative aspects. Still, they all really enjoyed Bruce Almighty
and hope it does well. Additionally, it's wonderful to see the beginnings
of dialogue between Hollywood and people of faith.
 A
SHORT BIO: Tom
Shadyac (Director/Producer) began his directing career with Jim
Carrey's breakout hit Ace Ventura: Pet Detective in 1994 and followed
it with the smash hit The Nutty Professor, which starred Eddie Murphy,
and then re-teamed with Carrey and Grazer for the 1997 sensation
Liar Liar. More recently, Shadyac directed Robin Williams in the
Golden Globe-nominated Patch Adams, yet another big hit, this time
successfully blending comedy and drama. He also executive-produced
Murphy's popular return in Nutty Professor II: The Klumps, and directed
Kevin Costner in the supernatural drama Dragonfly. Currently, he
serves as executive producer on ABC's 8 Simple Rules for Dating
my Teenage Daughter.
Shadyac
formed Shady Acres Entertainment, a production company based at
Universal Pictures, which is currently developing several films
in addition to television projects.
 THE
INTERVIEW (May 2003)
Shadyac:
Okay, let's all get serious and ask religious questions.
Question:
Who made the decision to have Bruce and Grace cohabitating without
marriage? Is that something you had to live with?
Shadyac:
Who made the decision? Or, do you want to say, "Who made the bad
decision?" (Laughs)
Question:
Did you pretty much have to live with that? Why the decision?
Shadyac:
Why the decision? Well, Bruce really wasn't grown up. You know,
we don't start with perfect people in movies. We start with imperfect
people, and then they have to go on a journey. Let's read the Bible
and see how many people cohabitated and did imperfect things. There
is shadow in the movie, and the shadow helps the light. So we are
not espousing any life style. We are not telling people, "Now this
is how to live!" We were telling a story. And Bruce wasn't grown
up enough. He didn't appreciate anything in his life. I think, when
you get married you have to appreciate your life and the partner
that you are with. And Bruce wasn't mature enough. It was a big
step for him. And that's why the movie ended up where it ended up.
It was a choice, you know, a choice. (Pause, then with gusto and
a smile) Do you forgive me?
(Audience
laughs)
Question:
Now that makes sense. I laughed so hard. I had not laughed that
hard since I was a kid at camp. And I cried. I want everyone to
see this movie. I came away so blown away by the emotion. And that
frustrates me because we have to tell our readers "Should they take
their kids to see this film?" And, that frustrates me because I
want everybody to see this movie. I was wondering why the bedroom
(scene) had to happen?
Shadyac:
Yes, well again, it happens because we are storytellers. And as
storytellers we are dealing with human actors, people, writers,
characters. And humans, as you know, tend to make mistakes. I do
not know if anyone in this group realizes it, people curse. (With
feeling) They curse! And obviously it is up to parents when parents
introduce that reality to their children. And they are going to
get that reality at some point or another. So, parents can make
choices. Our character, for example, says a curse word. And that
was our choice, and it was the lowest part of this character's evolution,
you know. He would not be proud of it at the end of the movie. He
would not be espousing it. He makes mistakes.
You
know, I have been going to church since I was a babe. And I go to
church today. And I think one of the challenges of our church, and
churchgoers in general, is to accept humanity as it is. We have
people in churches acting out, because they doesn't accept the whole
human being. They deny that we are sexual human beings. Or, that
we can be angry. I, as a filmmaker, am not going to deny that. I
am going to embrace that. I think it's important to embrace the
whole of humanity, and to say we are imperfect. By the standards
of most Christians today you could not read your Bible. I mean,
the Bible is chalk full of some pretty racy stuff, folks. There's
a lot, a lot, a lot of sexual impropriety. There is violence --
all kinds of things. It's not about a moment. It's about the entire
journey. If the Bible had not ended where it ended, it would be
a pretty downer of a book. It ends with redemption. So, if you take
one sentence out of the Bible, like with violence or sex, and you
just focus on that sentence, you would not want to go near the Bible.
But, if you look at the Bible as a whole, it's redemptive and beautiful
and it's God's love story to mankind.
And
this (film) is our love story in our dealing with God's love. It
must deal with imperfection. There is a line that I cut from the
movie where God is showing Bruce some footage of Lance Armstrong.
As you know, Lance had cancer and overcame it. To paint a picture
like that you've got to use some dark colors. The most powerful
stories we tell are (about) people who come from dark colors. People
who have been challenged by addictions, or abuse. And to overcome
that is really the light overcoming the darkness. Without the darkness
you have lost (both) humanity and the power of the light. (Pause
and then loudly) AMEN!
Audience:
Hallelujah! (Laughter)
Question:
I am interested in the spirituality that underlines the whole movie.
God goes to a lot trouble to teach this young man to pray. How did
God teach you to pray?
Shadyac:
He went through a lot of trouble, I can tell you that. The movie
is very personal to me, because I have been the guy on the ground.
Struggling. "God, why don't you answer this prayer?" I could not
get work ten years ago. I couldn't get arrested. And ahh, I got
an opportunity to direct She's the Sheriff. And I thought
for sure it was going to come through, but it didn't. And I was
screaming at the Man, the Creative Force, "Why, why, why?" Well,
now in hindsight you can see why. I was being prepared. I was growing
up. I was learning to be stronger. To die to my own way, and to
embrace the Divine way. I think God goes through a lot of trouble
with most of us, because we are stubborn, we are pestilent, we need
a lot of help. There is a line in the movie that is significant
to me -- when Bruce tells God "I just gave everyone what they wanted."
And God says, "Since when does anyone have a clue about what they
want?" We think we want the house, the car, this certain relationship.
We have no idea what we really want. What we really need is freedom,
to be loved, and to love. It is often quite a journey getting us
to that point.
Question:
There is a line in the movie where God says, "Everyone's problem
is that they keep on looking up."
Shadyac:
Yes, yes. And here comes the big controversy. Let's stir the pot.
(Laughter from audience) The key word in that sentence is "you keep
looking up." I think looking up is essential. Humility and looking
to God, looking to this Divine Creative Force, is essential. Because
I believe it's a reality. It's in your blood, it's in your DNA and
it's in mine. And our relationship with that Divine Force is essential.
However, to keep looking up means that we depend on God to
do everything for us. There is a story about a nun who went to God
and said, "Why, God, don't you do something about the people that
are hungry and sick?" And God said, "I did, I made you."
Right
here (points to self) is where I need to look for God. There is
a reason why Jesus went up. (Otherwise) he could be right here.
Jesus could be right here. He could be a producer. But he decided,
I think in my own thinking anyway, to go up and leave us as the
hands, his hands -- as his feet, as his heart, as his expressions.
So the key words there are "keep looking up." I hope people
will look up, but don't just keep looking up.
Question:
Is there significance to this incarnation of the guy who gets divine
powers? Is there any connection there?
Shadyac:
The incarnation? Like is there a subtle message about the incarnation?
Meaning Jesus is the incarnation? I think there are subtle messages
all over this movie. And you can take them for what you will, where
you are standing in your particular spiritual walk. I accidentally
run into them, like with the Father, Son and Holly Ghost analogies.
Morgan is three guys in the movie. Morgan is the electrician, the
janitor, and the boss. Father, Son, Holy Ghost -- kind of. Many
were intentional and many were just coincidental -- which is one
of my favorite sayings, "Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous."
We
purposely did not want to be dogmatic in this movie, folks. And
I think Jesus purposely did not want to be dogmatic. Jesus was a
storyteller. He didn't get into a lot of dogma when he told the
story of Prodigal Son, or the Three Virgins -- or was it Ten Virgins?
I forget. Lots of virgins in those days, anyways. But, he purposely
did not get dogmatic. He was a very inclusive soul. And we are telling
a parable here. And dogma -- we did not want to divide with dogma.
To be inclusive in our storytelling.
Question:
You are a Christian you are around people in Hollywood that have
been burnt by Christians. They feel like Christians don't get it
-- that Christians are harsh and so (they feel) they can't go to
church. What would you tell them, to make a difference in Hollywood?
Shadyac:
Say that again, because I was...
Question:
To touch folks who are lost, to touch people in Hollywood. To be
able to bridge the gap between the entertainment industry and the
church.
Shadyac:
Well, first I think that the entertainment industry can be vilified,
and we are just like everyone else. We are doing the best that we
can. And we are imperfect. You know, I have been on a walk myself.
And I have been part of the judgmental sect of society. So, I really
understand it. You want the best for someone. You want them to see
the light. But that line that you set is so important. And I think
it is so important for Christians to embrace -- see things through
God's eyes. How does God see that Hollywood person who is imperfect
-- who may not be walking the cleanest walk right now? God sees
them as beautiful, and full of potential, and full of light. And
who knows, what Christian knows, what God is doing in that person's
life? It could be on that person's deathbed that they get it. And
that's enough, because God doesn't deal in karos -- you know, in
chronological time. He deals in cronos, which is the quality of
time. A moment can be eternity. I think we Christians, we people
who "have seen the light," have to get off our judgmental high thrones.
I understand why -- because you want everyone to have the light.
But God is working in each life, individually, independently, dependently.
Allow people to go on their own imperfect journey. He will make
it perfect. He is God. Okay? I think too often we try to be God.
I hope that the Christian community, the very community that can
embrace the movie, will give it a chance, in whole. Because -- and
again I use the analogy of the Bible -- you could not even read
the Bible unless you take it as a whole story. We get so dogmatic
and close-minded. You lose the forest for the trees.
I
speak at spirituality conferences, occasionally, and they only talk
of religious movies as being ones that only deal with religion.
And it's just not true. This one just happens to have God in it
so it's viewed as a religious movie. But, so many movies are "spiritual
or religious" movies, and people won't see them that way because
there isn't a priest, nun or a minister. And they will lose the
forest for the trees. Take like, and I don't want to push Scent
of a Woman, but Scent of a Woman is the book of Ecclesiastes.
Now, how many Chrsitians will stay away from that movie because
there is cursing and he sleeps with a hooker? That is the book of
Ecclesiastes. The man who says, "All is vanity, all is lost,
I have no hope." It is the love of a boy, the love of a child, God
incarnate through a boy, comes in and says, "I love you", and it
changes his life.
We,
as Christians, if we stay on our judgmental box, miss that. We miss
it.
Question:
One of the things I heard, before seeing the film, was "What about
this raging against God?" "Isn't that blasphemous?"
Shadyac:
Yes! I answer it with Elijah, Jonah and Job. And I answer it with
my understanding of what God seeks in all of us, which is relationship.
And relationship demands honesty. I don't think we are to live in
our anger and our rage. But, to express it. Again, (this is) to
express a step along the journey. Bruce raged at God. A few weeks
later he got to see how silly that was. How self-indulgent that
was. How self-involved that was. How un-evolved that was. But, had
he not raged, had he not been honest, who knows if that step would
have been taken. . God loved him all along. The soil had to soften,
become porous so the seed could take root.
Question:
God loves everyone. But God cannot violate free will and make them
love Him. My favorite scene is when Bruce is standing there secretly
chanting to Grace, "Love me, love me" in an attempt to get her to
love him against her free will. Morgan Freeman says to Bruce, "Welcome
to my world." I think that moment was a real window into God for
the audience.
Shadyac:
Yes, God cannot make you love him, that's the thing.
Question:
That's high theology.
Shadyac:
Yes it is! He says "How can you make someone love you if you can
not effect free will." (God) says, "Welcome to my world, son."
Question:
We are not puppets.
Shadyac:
Yes, and because we have free will, you must introduce the shadow.
That's why I say this movie is appropriate. Even in its imperfections,
its moments where it dips into what some would consider the dark.
It's important. It's an important part of the story telling. Because
he gave us free will. And what we do with that free will is really
up to us. And we make mistakes, but the light is always there pulling
us towards it.
Question:
I think that the people I write for would give this film a chance
theologically. It would challenge teenagers. But I am wondering
about the sexual content. The bedroom scene and the whole thing.
And I see that as one of the more egregious things for people to
get over, in order to give it a chance. And I understand what you
said about starting out unmarried and ending up married, that makes
a lot of sense. It would have been nice -- I don't want to speak
for everybody -- if they could have been dating. If it could have
been more healthy. Because there is nothing in the film that casts
that relationship as a mistake. As the imperfect. There is nothing
in the context of the film that makes it clear that is not a good
thing to emulate. Because, you really like these characters. They
are nice people. So, could you talk about that a little bit? What
would you say to the parent really who really would like to sit
down with a 15-16 year old who watched this movie, but is very uncomfortable
with that particular part?
Shadyac:
I would say, "Let's talk about Bruce Nolan. Let's talk about the
choices he made at the beginning of the movie, and then lets talk"
-- over a meal with the rest of the family -- "about the choices
he made at the end of the movie."
Bruce
Nolan has a great relationship. You are right; these are two good
people -- with a huge difference. Bruce Nolan doesn't see it. He
misses every sign that God gives him. The woman's name is Grace,
for goodness sake. She is literally grace in his life. And he doesn't
see it. He's not making (right) choices based on the ultimate evolution
of his character. Ultimately loving (right) choices.
I
was just talking to another reporter. She said, "I got two messages
from the movie. (1) 'Be the miracle' and (2) Jim said, 'Appreciate
your life.'" But to be the miracle you have to appreciate your life.
I cannot be the miracle in your life if I am not healthy. I (need
to realize that I) have been given means and opportunity, (that)
I can share that now with you. Bruce doesn't. He doesn't. He's been
given a great woman, but he doesn't see it. He's looking at all
the external things in his life, to fix his life. He wants a better
job, a bigger apartment. He has a mediocre job. He has a mediocre
life. I would talk about that with my family. Let's look at where
Bruce started in this movie.
I
was just reading St. Augustine this morning. You guys should not
pick up that book. If people will not go to see Bruce Almighty,
then (they) shouldn't pick up Confessions by Saint Augustine.
Because he lived a very worldly life -- with all the trappings of
the world. And they were sexual and they were. And look a St. Paul.
Don't read St. Paul, please. He killed Christians. He didn't just
sleep with someone before marriage. He killed Christians. Don't
look at St. Paul. We could go down the list -- of everyone (in the
Bible) that these families admire, and yet these people will hold
Hollywood to a different standard. They will take St. Augustine's
Confessions and say, "Read it. It's a beautiful book." But
Bruce Almighty isn't beautiful, because he's out of wedlock
with a woman. This St. Augustine, he was a crazy man. He would take
MTV and show them how to party. But he became St. Augustine. You
can't have the end of the story without the beginning of the story.
What is wrong with us? My goodness, we have gotten so narrow focused.
We've missed the whole picture -- which God gave us -- dark and
light. The light cannot be there without the dark.
Question:
What they want to hear at the end: "And now will you marry me? Because
what we have been doing is living in sin."
Shadyac:
Yes we did, when he says, "This is my Mrs. Exclusive." And you know,
who are we to get into God's head space? God said to a woman at
the well, "Ah, you've been married this many times already; you
say you haven't, but you been married this many times before." In
God's eyes maybe Bruce and Grace were married from the first time
they were together. You know, it's just a matter of society and
Bruce catching up to that idea, -- that seed -- that God had placed
in him all that time.
What
exactly is the message of the film?
I
think its personal. Each person can go to this movie and take a
different message than what I have. It could be "Appreciate what
you have." It could be "Be the miracle." For me the movie has always
been about the true source of power. And we give power away all
the time in our lives. We give all the power to God, when he says,
"I am right there in you. The power is in you to make a difference.
I put it there. I created you."
Really
for me, at its deepest level, its about true power. True power.
Not giving it away to a job, to any relationship, but looking inside
and up -- then nothing can affect your true identity and your true
power.
Question:
What other films, besides Scent of a Woman would you see
as a spiritual film.
Shadyac:
Forrest Gump. Or, Being There, which is basically
becoming like little children, or you can't enter the kingdom of
God. There are so many movies out there.
Question:
Was it difficult, as a Christian, to get your view across in this
film to the stars or the writer?
Shadyac:
No difference at all. Except to express -- what words to put in
the mouth of God or Bruce's mouth. Jim being the star is a brother
-- I mean is a brother in many ways to me. You know, comedy being
our passion. But also this search, the quest, spirituality, faith,
prayer, all very much a part of Jim's life.
Question:
Really?
Shadyac:
Oh yes, very much so. I won't speak for him; I'll let him speak.
But, that's what I've observed. Steve Oedekerk, our writer, the
gentleman who came in and rewrote the script --completely a man
of prayer, faith, walking the God-walk in his own way. So, I do
not think it was an accident that we (were) brought together to
do this. So, there was a great kinship. It was not a struggle at
all. It was a challenge, you know, putting words in God's mouth.
I called my friends, who were ministers, or priests, or theologians,
and said, "Hey we're putting words in God's mouth, help! What would
you say if you were God and you could speak?" Father Ken, at where
I go to church -- St Agatha's here in town -- wrote some of the
best lines.
Question:
Prayer was such a huge thing in the movie. What would you say about
prayer?
Shadyac:
I pray because it's essential for me. I have come to view prayer
as a conversation. It goes back to that relationship that we talked
about. I've come to believe that prayer can be so many things. I
read, write and pray in the mornings. My writing, my journaling,
became a form of prayer, being honest with God. "I'm frustrated
with this." "What's happening here?" And, "I feel sad about that."
I am a fan of Thomas Merton, and have many of his journals, and
I realize that was one of his forms of prayer. We should live our
lives as 24/7 forms of prayer, offering our lives completely. To
me that's the goal.
Question:
You obviously have a very strong belief and yet you have to deal
with everybody. Do you feel you come up to a wall? Do you find people
in Hollywood that stay away from you because you're a Christian?
Shadyac:
No, not at all, and I will tell you why. I am making them money.
Audience
laughs.
Shadyac:
We are telling tales that people are being entertained by. It's
called show business. As long as the business side of things adds
up to a plus, they are going to give you a forum. |
INTERVIEW
WITH THE DIRECTOR
