LACK
OF TIME ON MIRACLES
Subject: HISTORICAL JESUS REPLY
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000
From: Mrs Howard
I watched it and
was glad that a network would say something about Jesus; however I was
not pleased about the lack of time spent on the miracles such as raising
LAZARUS or the Resurrection. Faith is something that can never be proved
and I thought Jennings said it well when he stated that they were not
trying to prove the Bible accounts as to the deity of JESUS. I was still
glad that they were talking about his influence on the world then and
now.
PASSION
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000
From: kenneth
I taped the documentary
and just got around to seeing it. I think the many modern shots of Israel
were sobering and what some Christian people need to get their heads
out of the clouds concerning the environment in which Jesus lived. On
the other hand, way on the other hand, Jennings does what all journalists
do when talking about Jesus as Lord. They weigh heavily in on the non-beleivers
side than the believers. Maybe because they are taught that good journalism
must be "fair" and fairness is governed by reason in our world causing
even serious, sympathetic journalists to lose their way as they near
the risen Christ. For example, Jennings allowed a scholar to posit that
Jesus may have really healed, but His doing so simply fits in with present
day holistic beliefs concerning healing. There was no real danger in
approaching the power of our Lord as he raised Lazarus. Though he used
the Bible more frequently than other journalists, he still seemed to
be undercutting it each time with the well thought out objections of
scholars, who showed very little real enthusiasm for Christ. Ironically,
Jennings himself was the most passionate person in the program!
FUNDAMENTALISTS
STRIKE AGAIN
Subject: The Search For Jesus!
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000
From: Shane Fuller - Indianapolis, IN
The Fundamentalists
strike again! Isn't it funny how fundamentalist are always upset about
something. Peter Jennings told people at the beginning what this story
was going to be about. Did the fundamentalist think they were going
to turn on ABC and get a glowing report on the life of Christ and that
the TV audience would be offered an invitation in the end? Come on!
I believe Peter Jennings did a great job presenting the information.
This program gave us a good look at the 'Jesus Seminar' and the ideas
that they hold dear. It seemed to be balanced in having N.T. Wright
and others share throughout the program. They all had seemingly equal
time to share the different points of view.
When it comes down
to it, I as a Christian have faith in the apostolic accounts of the
life of Jesus. I wasn't there either and so my faith and hope are in
Christ and that He is who He claimed to be. I believe the eyewitness
accounts given about His life through the apostles. It is faith. This
seems to be what the Jesus Seminar is scared of. It isn't scholarly
enough for them. But they do a great job understanding the history and
backgrounds of the Jews which is very important if we are to understand
the Bible in its original context. Yes, they came to some wrong conclusions,
but so do the fundamentalist. And so do all of us.
I would think that
we would spend less time bashing these men and praying that as they
study the texts of Scriptures that God would open their minds and give
them the "Sixth Sense" of faith to see God! I thought this show was
very helpful in understanding the many views of the life of Christ that
are out there and how they apply to our everyday life. In this, I believe
Peter Jennings accomplished His goal and gave a piece of good journalism.
- Shane Fuller - Indianapolis, IN
THE
INFAMOUS JESUS SEMINAR
Subject: Reaction to "In Search Of Jesus"
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000
From: Chris
I was underwhelmed
by the level of journalistic integrity supporting this "study" of the
historical Jesus. The fact that five of the scholars used for the "expertise"
in this field were members of the infamous Jesus Seminar. The balance,
to use the term very loosely, was provided by a neutral Jewish Rabbi,
and a lone conservative Christian theologian. I am amazed that not one
amin stream Seminary from the United States was consulted for their
insights on the subject. If this is an example of journalistic integrity
that exemplifies unbiased, objective reporting, I tremble for the church
and for our country.
Rev. Christian R. Mattison
HOPEFULLY
PEOPLE WILL THINK
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000
From: "Jennifer"
If nothing else
the special hopefully made people think about Jesus. Consider Christ.
That may be the start that someone needs. To really consider Christ.
To be intrigued by Him. And hopefully seek out more about Him.
LACK
OF OTHER KINDS OF SCHOLARS
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000
From: B. G. Tucker, Georgia
My husband and I
found the show frustrating if not insulting. Not only was there a noticeable
lack of scholars from the evangelical and Eastern Orthodox traditions,
there were no Jewish scholars included for cultural background or for
the Hebraic input on the historical Jesus. The comments toward the end
from Ms. Fredricksen of Boston University made no sense,"I can't believe
in the resurrection because I wasn't there." How does she accept anything
as truth that is outside her immediate experience? The comments on the
Judas story as being an anti-semitic spin doctoring seems kind of silly
since most of the early Christians were Jews (why would they be anti-semitic,
then?).
Again, saying that
a group of Jews invented the resurrection story by borrowing it from
the pagan mystery religions makes no sense in light of what we know
about Judaism's separation from non-Jews at that time. The closing comments
by the Anglican scholar on the resurrection were thoughtful, though.
He said that something must have happened after Jesus death to change
his disciples--otherwise they would have gone to another Messiah or
just scattered. Amen to that, a strong evidentiary argument for the
resurrection. The rest of the show was short on cultural background
and true historical detail. I was hoping for more cultural/historical
context and didn't get it.
B. G. Tucker Georgia
STATEMENTS
IN IGNORANCE
Subject: Jennings program;
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: anita
This was a program
that left me feeling that others of the "world" are really so lost.
What a shame that people searching for Jesus had to listen to the statements
made in ignorance. True believers in the Bible, we need to all be more
willing to stand up and debunk these "scholarly" ideas!
MIRACLES
ARE CHRISTIAN ADVERTISMENTS?
Subject: Search for Jesus
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: Blonde
I watched parts
of the broadcast last night, and I'm still not sure quite what I think
of it. However, there are some parts that really bugged me. For example,
miracles is a form of Christian Advertisments? I have no clue where
that came from...or how Mary's conversation with Gabriel and how she
was carrying a baby conceived by the Holy Spirit may have been a cover
up for an illegitimate pregnancy...with anyone...even a Roman soldier?
I know that the story was a little strange but it seems that with the
events that would later occur it would prove that Jesus was God's Son.
I think it is great that they did all that research but it might have
helped if they had more rounded sources...everyone seemed to have their
own little mistakes that they had found in the Bible..and as I know
the Bible is an infallible authority...it is all truth.
I
DO BELIEVE
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: Deje
Hi David, my name
is DJ and I seen the miniseries "JESUS", and I have to say, that I loved
it. I don't know if I will get a chance to watch the documentary tonight
or not, but just to let you know, YES, I do believe in the resurrection
of Christ. There were parts of the movie that were fictitious, but it
also showed a side of Jesus that I never knew, and that was the side
where he is laughing, dancing, having fun, and playing with children.
That's the side of him that they don't talk about in church or in the
Bible, and I thought it was awesome to see him as a normal human being
as well as all the pain and suffering he went through for us. I hope
that others will see it the same, and if they want to give me their
opinion, then that would be great.
My e-mail address is:::::deje1120@aol.com
EFFORT
LAUDABLE, RESULTS LACKING
Subject: Jennings calls that reporting?!?!
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: "K K"
While the EFFORT
Mr. Jennings made with his "Jesus" documentary was laudable, the results
were sadly lacking. If the Jennings documentary was all we had, we would
be left with a Jesus who taught 2 or 3 of the Beatitudes, turned over
some tables in the Temple, was killed for turning over the tables, was
eaten by dogs but resurrected anyway (but actually really wasn't because
it was a "hope myth"), and then somehow changed the world ... "miraculously"
(the documentary's closing word). This portrait is, of course, ridiculously
superficial.
Memo to Mr. Jennings:
Jesus SPOKE! No, really. Yes, he did! Exceedingly well, actually. See:
a little thing called the "Sermon on the Mount." Moreover, Jesus ACTED.
He changed the world because of his TEACHINGS and his SACRIFICE. He
was -- first and foremost -- a spiritual man! Ignoring this fact, as
the Jennings documentary did so studiously, is bound to produce a flawed
portrait. Perhaps Mr. Jennings will someday treat us to a special about
Einstein that doesn't mention science, or an anaylsis of Hitler that
excludes politics!
If this documentary
represents Jennings' personal spiritual quest, I feel sorry for the
man. His "quest" consists of a pretty travelogue, and interviews with
a bunch of like-minded "scholars" who all seek to de-spiritualize Jesus.
Jennings takes their words as gospel truth, and does not seek any competing
viewpoints. Most tellingly, Jennings avoids the Testaments, both Old
and New alike, like the plague. Jennings "Search" was astonishingly
illiterate -- the man has apparently never read a single classic in
the historical Jesus field, including THE classic on the subject, "Quest
of the Historic Jesus" by Albert Schweitzer!
In the end, Jennings
concludes that much of Jesus' story is fake, but he still changed the
world ... "miraculously." Someone needs to tell Mr. Jennings that Jesus
CAN be found, and quite easily. One day, Mr. Jennings, he might even
find YOU.
Kirk Kimball New York
FEW
SCHOLARS INTERVIEWED
Subject: Re: Hollywood Jesus Newsletter #14
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: Malsom
I was a bit disappointed
in that there wasn't a few more scholars interviewed. It seemed that
they stole Christ's divinity from him. I didn't understand why Jennings
referred to the "group at the Qumran" but didn't report themas the "Essenes."
There was also all this talk about the stories that were in Mt, Mk,
Lk but not in John. And therefore, they can't substantiate the stories,
etc. There was no mention of the fact that Mt, Mk, Lk are the Synoptic
Gospels and that each was writing to a different audience. It was interesting
at best, but I was disappointed too; however, I guess we should be glad
that Jennings even attempted the material on network TV.
Response:
Yea, it is disappointing. The only scholars interviewed were those with
Hollywood style press agents. HMMM maybe other scholars should take
a que. -David
I
HAVE SEEN ENOUGH OF CROSSAN
Subject: Jesus
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: Jonan
Why don't you
(ABC-TV) try to get some other "Bible Scholars" for a change.
I have seen enough of Crossan & the other members of the Jesus Seminar.
These people have been trying to rewrite the Bible for us with their
interpretations that certainly are not found in the Scriptures. On a
whole I enjoyed seeing secular television approach the subject of Jesus.
However, it seemed a great deal slanted to the side of the skeptic &
those who don't believe in the written word of the Bible. Joann Lynch
- Las Vegas, Nevada
Response:
I agree. John 'the dogs ate Jesus' Crossan has the media in his
hip pocket. The media bows down to this man. It is as though there are
no other scholars that matter. John 'the dogs ate Jesus' Crossan
must have a helluva press agent (-and I mean that remark literally).
-David
GREEK
MYTHS?
Subject: Miracles
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: Aiw
I just watched the Peter Jennings Search for Jesus program and I, for
one, am disappointed in it. Like you said, David, the spiritual side
of Jesus was lost. The people interviewed think that those miracles
Jesus performed were made up by Gospel writers because they reflect
Greek myths. Well, if they really do seem like the Greek Myths, then
it only means one thing-Jesus did those miracles purposely to show that
those Greek myths were fantasies but that He could make them a reality.
The program spent
so much time talking about the Nativity that the crucifixion was barely
talked about. They didn't talk about flogging details or crucifixion
details at all, they just said, "They crucified Him". I was hoping someone
would be able to answer to my question involving the cross, so let's
see if you, David can answer. I always thought that when the Romans
crucified people, they made them carry the cross beam, then, (like in
the CBS movie Jesus) there'd be a pole waiting for them on the hill
and when they died they were removed so that another victim would die
on that same pole with a different cross beam. Well, I just found out
that the Romans let the bodies rott on the cross so if Jesus was carrying
the cross beam, where would the pole be if the ones on the hill already
have dead bodies on them? Anyway, good job on the site,
David, I love it!
Response:
I have read "The
Ancient Mysteries -A Source Book" edited by Mavin W. Meyer,
which is a translation of the Mystery Religions of the Ancient Mediterranean
World, Harper & Row (click
here to get your copy). Basically, it was about nature gods. "The
mighty goddess Anath and her lover, the fertility god Baal, who dies
(fall) and rises from death (spring) with the plants and the earth.
The Asian Adonis, the Anatolian Attis, the Egyptian Osiris similarly
were gods who had died and who were linked to the cycle of vegetation,
and the rebirth of fertility in the world of nature (p. 6)." These
nature gods were part of mystery societies. The Greek word "mystery"
referred to keeping the mouth quiet. Nature gods bear little in nature
with Jesus Christ (-forgive the pun). And, keeping quiet is not what
the early church was.
Another
interesting book is "Pagan
Resurrection Myths and the Resurrection of Jesus" by Leon McKenzie,
Bookwrights Press of Charlottesville." (Click
here to get a copy). What McKenzie says is, "The God who raised
Jesus from the dead is the same God who created a world in which resurrection
motifs abound and register in human experience. This is the same God
who created the psychological mechanisms by which experiences of the
resurrection motif are interpreted and transformed into myths (pg. ix)."
McKenzie says what C. S. Lewis stated: All myths point to a central
truth and that truth is the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
In
terms of crucifixion. Josephus,
the famous first century Jewish historian states that the Romans crucified
victims in all sorts of ways and positions (click
here to get the book). There was no standard form as John 'the
dogs ate Jesus' Crossan would have us believe. Crucifixion was generally
for the lower class who would rot on the crosses. Jesus had rich well
connected friends (Luke 23:50-56) who made arrangements with Pilot for
the body, the Romans had little interest in Jesus rotting on the cross
-money speaks. -David
STATEMENTS
MADE IN IGNORANCE
Subject: Jennings program;
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: anita
This was a program
that left me feeling that others of the "world" are really so lost.
What a shame that people searching for Jesus had to listen to the statements
made in ignorance. True believers in the Bible, we need to all be more
willing to stand up and debunk these "scholarly" ideas!
I
KNOW THAT I KNOW
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: Liz
in response to is
jesus real, i know he is because i was once bound to alcohol and crank
and marijuana, i tried stopping myself but it never worked. to make
it short, i called upon the name of the lord, and he set me free!!!
so i know that i know, that my savior has set me free for his honor
and his glory.in his service.
liz O. merced,calif
Response:
No one can argue against another person's personal experience. -David
SPIRITUAL
ASPECT IGNORED
Subject: In Search of Jesus
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: Ching
One positive result
as I see it from the documentary is the establishment of the historicity
of Jesus. The interpretation of the teachings of Jesus was, however,
too much colored by the desire of the various interviewees to put everything
in the context of the cultural and political background at the time.
So much so that the spiritual aspect of Jesus' teachings was largely
ignored.
Despite this, with
all things considered, ABC and Peter Jennings should be commended for
such an effort. I do, however, beg to differ from Mr. Peter Wall's perception
that "conservative" christianity equals ignorance and bigotry. There
are a large number of christians who believe in the literal interpretation
of the bible that are highly intelligent and are well versed in the
issues that Mr. Wall mentioned in his comments. I suggest that we refrain
from insulting such christians by the unfair use of stereotypes. Also
I am not sure if I understand what Mr. Wall mean by "real and contemporary
christian thought". Does he mean that traditional christian thoughts
are not "real" or valid?
Name: ching
HUNDREDS
SAW JESUS RESURRECTED
Subject: The resurrection
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: LYNDA
The resurrection
was reported by all four gospels and hundreds of disciples (not just
a few). This was no updating of a pagan myth. Jesus said "Tetelestai"
from the cross - "paid in full." What was paid in full? His vision for
which He supposedly died? No, it really was the sins of the world that
Isaiah had prophetically seen hundreds of years before Jesus was born.
Palm Sunday's mass of humanity waving palms before Jesus Christ was
because He had raised Lazarus - a minor miracle in some people's eyes
but pretty important then: the Jewish leaders wanted not only to kill
Jesus but Lazarus too! There are many articulate conservative theologians
that Peter Jennings could have chosen to interview and it's disappointing
to me that Scripture was eclectically chosen in this special. I learned
some very interesting history but I also learned why many of our mainline
denominations are dying.
Response:
I love History. I also love spirituality -which was lacking in the ABC
presentation. What was presented was a historical Jewish teacher devoid
of spirituality. The Jesus of the various scholars sounded like a mirror
reflection of their personal beliefs -a trap we often fall into. -David
JESUS
IS WHOM HE SAID HE IS
Subject: disappointing
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: Joyce
"You can fool some
of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the
time." It was personally done to dismember the Christian faith and nothing
else. As far as me being labeled "Fundamental" by other Christians whom
enjoyed this program, you scare me. I'm sure if you don't have the basis
of your faith that Jesus IS whom He said He is, the resurrection...and
the validity of the Scriptures. I take it personally when someone mocks
Jesus, and that is exactly what has happened. The gospel of Mark was
found w/the dead sea scrolls and dated RIGHT AFTER Jesus' resurrection,
but I guess they didn't mention that as well. If you are born from the
dead into life, then you understand the resurrection..if you haven't
then get another religion and stop mocking my Savior!! Good riddance
ABC!
Response:
Labeling tends to put people in boxes that are easy to dismiss. -David
SCHOLARS
ONLY BY MEDIA ACCLAIM
Subject: Forefront of Christian Thought?
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: "Lonni Collins Pratt"
The special was
well-produced and it seems, well-intentioned. However, it was also boring
and presented nothing but the same old same old from the Jesus Seminar
folks who, contrary to some posters notions, are not at the forefront
of contemporary Christian thought. They are at the forefront of a huge
publishing industry which has used its power to make them into "experts."
There are many, many equally qualified, if not more qualified scholars
who would hold opposing points of view and they aren't accursed fundamentalists
either. That Jennings failed to present any scholarship apart from the
Jesus Seminar is simply shoddy reporting. However, if viewed as Jennings
spiritual exploration it becomes more interesting because his questions
certainly reflect the questions of an entire generation. As for the
Jesus Seminar guests--they are scholars only by media acclaim. Talk
to the people who have studied, taught and investigated the life of
Christ and you'll discover a whole other list of scholars, regardless
of what tradition you come from.
--Lonni Collins Pratt, author, journalist, speaker
Response:
I am with you. The 'Jesus Seminar' does not represent current scholarship
as it exists in the majority of Christian Universities. John 'the
dogs ate Jesus' Crossan is over used by the media and other, more
brilliant scholars, are never used. The reason being, Crossan has good
PR and excellent media savvy. Believe me, "the dogs ate Jesus"
is not typical of current scholarship. I still want to know why he is
the ONLY scholar on the ABC web site to chat with web visitors! -David
JENNINGS
DID A FINE JOB!
Subject: An Affirmation
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000
From: peter
After watching the
documentary, I have read several of the viewers' comments on beliefnet.com,
as well as the brief remarks from David Bruce on hollywoodjesus.com.
What is most striking, from my perspective, is the outcry of fundamentalists
and other assorted conservatives. They have argued for so long that
all they get is bad press while somehow managing to forget that most
of the time, they are the only Christians who get any press at all.
Now suddenly there is a prime time network presentation of mainline
Christian ideas and poor Mr. Jennings, who has done a fine job of solid
research on contemporary debates, gets the shaft. Oh no, lament the
conservatives, it's that darned liberal media giving us the shaft again.
I, for one, am very
excited at the prospect of real and contemporary Christian thought making
it into the public eye. It's about time we take the spotlight off of
the right wing crowd. Let them languish without their alleged negative
publicity and see what happens then. They may complain that folks like
Mr. Jennings and his "liberal" colleagues are in a conspiracy to paint
them as intolerant bigots, but they thrive on that stuff. They like
being painted as the bad guys. It feeds their self-righteous attitudes
and helps repress their guilt.
The Peter Jennings
documentary on the historical Jesus may have spent the majority of its
time away from conservative perspectives, but why not? Everybody knows
what they think, they're so darned loud-mouthed about everything. But
how many people outside of seminaries and academic circles have heard
of Marcus Borg, Jerome Murphy O'Connor, Robert Funk, N.T. Wright, or
John Dominic Crossnan? Conservatives may scream and holler against it,
but these are the guys who are at the forefront of Christian thought.
(Of course, I say "guys" with full knowledge that there are also a whole
host of women making waves in Christian thought.)
And how many Christians
know the history of their tradition? One visitor to beliefnet.com noted
that the other viewer comments coming from more conservative perspectives
exhibited a profound ignorance of Christian history. I would have to
agree. How many Christians know that the gospels were written many years
after the death of Jesus? How many Christians know that the authorship
of the gospels has been disputed from the very beginning? How many Christians
know that there were no churches to speak of before Constantine? How
many Christians know that all our favorite doctrines about Jesus did
not spring ready-made out of nowhere, but were instead hammered out
over the following centuries by churchmen and theologians, and are still
being hammered on today?
This documentary
was quite an event, in that it portrayed people of faith who are willing
to think and question with quiet humility, and allow others different
conclusions, without being aggressive or defensive, as most conservatives
seem to be. And if anyone doubts the faith and reasoning behind the
words of Borg, Funk, Crossnan, and company, try reading their books.
These men have spent their lives trying to understand the issues of
faith in our modern age, and done quite a good job of it. You don't
have to agree with every conclusion they make, but they definitely have
something important to say. Kudos to Mr. Jennings for giving them an
opportunity to speak to the general TV-watching public.
Peter Wall peterj@madnet.net
Response:
i have no problem with the scholars. It's just that John 'the dogs
ate Jesus' Crossan is the only one on the ABC website for chat.
Having Wright and Crossan would be good. One believes in the resurection
and the other does not. -David
IT
WAS IN SPANISH!
Subject: Jesus
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000
From: Sonja
I've been anxiously
awaiting the documentary...can you imagine my surprise to find it's
coming across in Spanish?! Is this happening to anyone else? How disappointing!
Sonja
Response:
Did you have the SAP (Separate Audio Program) turned on? -David
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